Intel C2000 Series Failures

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L0max
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by L0max » Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am

I'm going by what was said in this post:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 55#p526454

and this one:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 10#p520761

Can anyone from Synology explain what the fix for this problem actually is?

iknowtech
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by iknowtech » Thu May 17, 2018 7:13 am

Tobias-vdp wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:07 am
Now my RS815+ is affected as well - bought in Jan 2015 - out of the three years warranty, synology support was not helpful. The whole dealing with this topic, especially for rack units that are used in corporate environments, is subpar. Need to buy something new, and it probably won´t be another synology after this experience
You should get an additional year on your warranty, shouldn't be very easy to get an RMA. How quickly you'll receive the replacement I can't say, but getting the RMA issued should be no problem.

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aircub
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by aircub » Thu May 17, 2018 12:50 pm

The most annoying this with this situation is the waiting. I have a DS1815+ where the warranty with the extra year runs out towards the end of this year. I have no idea if my unit will fail and chances are it will after the warranty.
DS1812+
DS1815+

seePyou
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by seePyou » Thu May 17, 2018 2:21 pm

L0max wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am
I'm going by what was said in this post:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 55#p526454

and this one:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 10#p520761

Can anyone from Synology explain what the fix for this problem actually is?
More to the point, could someone from Synology specify if the resistor is a permanent correction to the situation?

iknowtech
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by iknowtech » Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm

aircub wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:50 pm
The most annoying this with this situation is the waiting. I have a DS1815+ where the warranty with the extra year runs out towards the end of this year. I have no idea if my unit will fail and chances are it will after the warranty.
You can request an advance replacement unit, they have been granting those requests, I believe you just need to pay for the replacement unit, then they will credit you back when they receive the RMA'd unit.

iknowtech
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by iknowtech » Thu May 17, 2018 4:25 pm

seePyou wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:21 pm
L0max wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am
I'm going by what was said in this post:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 55#p526454

and this one:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 10#p520761

Can anyone from Synology explain what the fix for this problem actually is?
More to the point, could someone from Synology specify if the resistor is a permanent correction to the situation?
I don't think anyone really knows for sure. Other than the Intel engineers and maybe some of the OEMs that are under NDA. Its probably safe to assume that the device isn't going to last forever regardless of the fix. All we do know is that the resistor fix will extend the lifespan vs having a unit without the fix. Take your pick. Some OEMs did full recalls on everything with a Intel C2000 Series CPU and replaced everything with different hardware. Synology has decided for good or bad that they didn't see that as a necessary course of action. Whether that was a good business move remains to be seen.

Tobias-vdp
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by Tobias-vdp » Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm

iknowtech wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:13 am
Tobias-vdp wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:07 am
Now my RS815+ is affected as well - bought in Jan 2015 - out of the three years warranty, synology support was not helpful. The whole dealing with this topic, especially for rack units that are used in corporate environments, is subpar. Need to buy something new, and it probably won´t be another synology after this experience
You should get an additional year on your warranty, shouldn't be very easy to get an RMA. How quickly you'll receive the replacement I can't say, but getting the RMA issued should be no problem.
Synology refused an advance replacement

Synology refused to make an RMA and asked me to contact my distributor who went out of business

iknowtech
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by iknowtech » Fri May 18, 2018 1:41 am

Tobias-vdp wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm
iknowtech wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:13 am
Tobias-vdp wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:07 am
Now my RS815+ is affected as well - bought in Jan 2015 - out of the three years warranty, synology support was not helpful. The whole dealing with this topic, especially for rack units that are used in corporate environments, is subpar. Need to buy something new, and it probably won´t be another synology after this experience
You should get an additional year on your warranty, shouldn't be very easy to get an RMA. How quickly you'll receive the replacement I can't say, but getting the RMA issued should be no problem.
Synology refused an advance replacement

Synology refused to make an RMA and asked me to contact my distributor who went out of business
I can tell you that's not what a majority of people have experienced. What country are you in?

How did you reach out for the RMA?

Either your in a country where RMA rules are different than the USA, you're going about the RMA the wrong way, or you pissed someone off for some reason.

Tobias-vdp
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by Tobias-vdp » Fri May 18, 2018 5:59 am

iknowtech wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:41 am
Tobias-vdp wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm
iknowtech wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:13 am


You should get an additional year on your warranty, shouldn't be very easy to get an RMA. How quickly you'll receive the replacement I can't say, but getting the RMA issued should be no problem.
Synology refused an advance replacement

Synology refused to make an RMA and asked me to contact my distributor who went out of business
I can tell you that's not what a majority of people have experienced. What country are you in?

How did you reach out for the RMA?

Either your in a country where RMA rules are different than the USA, you're going about the RMA the wrong way, or you pissed someone off for some reason.
Living in Germany, reached out via support form, the answers were not helpful at all, sent an email to the special mail adress after this experience asking for clarification on the warranty period of this unit and did not even receive an answer...

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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by iknowtech » Fri May 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Tobias-vdp wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:59 am
iknowtech wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:41 am
Tobias-vdp wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm


Synology refused an advance replacement

Synology refused to make an RMA and asked me to contact my distributor who went out of business
I can tell you that's not what a majority of people have experienced. What country are you in?

How did you reach out for the RMA?

Either your in a country where RMA rules are different than the USA, you're going about the RMA the wrong way, or you pissed someone off for some reason.
Living in Germany, reached out via support form, the answers were not helpful at all, sent an email to the special mail adress after this experience asking for clarification on the warranty period of this unit and did not even receive an answer...
Try calling them.
+49 211 9666 9666

Or call the US Support if you have to.
1 (425) 296-3177

Tobias-vdp
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by Tobias-vdp » Fri May 18, 2018 7:19 pm

iknowtech wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 4:33 pm
Tobias-vdp wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:59 am
iknowtech wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 1:41 am


I can tell you that's not what a majority of people have experienced. What country are you in?

How did you reach out for the RMA?

Either your in a country where RMA rules are different than the USA, you're going about the RMA the wrong way, or you pissed someone off for some reason.
Living in Germany, reached out via support form, the answers were not helpful at all, sent an email to the special mail adress after this experience asking for clarification on the warranty period of this unit and did not even receive an answer...
Try calling them.
+49 211 9666 9666

Or call the US Support if you have to.
1 (425) 296-3177
Tried to call us - after 10 minutes i gave up - started a chat where the support person confirmed that they can´t help me either, as only the country support can help

mitcho
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by mitcho » Mon May 21, 2018 12:14 pm

mitcho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:50 am
Hi,
So I have a DS415+ ser. 14Cxxxxxx, so my warranty has expired. What to do to "extend" units life?
Where to can I send the unit in Europe (I'm from Slovenia)?
If I put the 100 Ohm resistor it cost me almost nothing, but how long can this be the solution?

Thanx, Mitcho
I got the answer from local dealer. It's like that, they dissemble the unit and send MB to service, get the fixed MB back and reassemble and test. They charge 2 hours of work, so 70€. oooo, and this could take about cca. 1 month or more!!


I'll made a "fix" myself, so resistor here we come. ;)


by, Mitcho

seePyou
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by seePyou » Mon May 21, 2018 3:55 pm

Can anyone explain in whatever words they would like (easy or electrical engineering) why the Cxxx chips problem we seem to be suffering from can be worked around with the simple addition of a second PSU?

I have read this all, and I have replied that I have sent my unit back (after Support accepted to RMA it on their estimation it is the C2000 problem), but I just keep coming back to this simple fact: In my research of the forum here I came across the workaround to get your data out before sending the unit back. It involves the simple process of pulling out the 24pin ATX power connection from the motherboard, plugging that into a PSU tester so that power runs, and the Synology PSU will power the drives.
Then you take a second PSU, plug that one's 24pin connection to the Synology motherboard and power both (Synology and the external PSU).
At this time, the power button works, as does the entire system.
Replace the connectors to their original state, nothing works.
Flip them again, it all works again.

If the Cxxx chip in our Synology is dead, or faulty, or anything, how does the existence of an external PSU get around that???

Townie
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by Townie » Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 pm

iknowtech wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 4:25 pm
seePyou wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:21 pm
L0max wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am
I'm going by what was said in this post:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 55#p526454

and this one:

https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopi ... 10#p520761

Can anyone from Synology explain what the fix for this problem actually is?
More to the point, could someone from Synology specify if the resistor is a permanent correction to the situation?
I don't think anyone really knows for sure. Other than the Intel engineers and maybe some of the OEMs that are under NDA. Its probably safe to assume that the device isn't going to last forever regardless of the fix. All we do know is that the resistor fix will extend the lifespan vs having a unit without the fix. Take your pick. Some OEMs did full recalls on everything with a Intel C2000 Series CPU and replaced everything with different hardware. Synology has decided for good or bad that they didn't see that as a necessary course of action. Whether that was a good business move remains to be seen.
Reading up on this the fix should make the unit operate as intended. Essentially it's a legacy system bus that fails, the kind of bus where serial and parallel ports used to connect, something not found on modern systems or Synology NAS's. What causes the problem is the boot ROM connects to this bus also, hence when it fails the unit is dead. The workaround is basically a transistor soldered onto this bus that has the effect of either reducing wear and tear back to 'normal' levels again or prevents the bus failure causing a system wide failure. I'm not sure which one is correct so maybe someone else could clarify.

The best explanation I've seen is here on anandtech.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/se ... discovered

seePyou
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Unread post by seePyou » Wed May 23, 2018 3:52 pm

Townie wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:26 pm

Reading up on this the fix should make the unit operate as intended. Essentially it's a legacy system bus that fails, the kind of bus where serial and parallel ports used to connect, something not found on modern systems or Synology NAS's. What causes the problem is the boot ROM connects to this bus also, hence when it fails the unit is dead. The workaround is basically a transistor soldered onto this bus that has the effect of either reducing wear and tear back to 'normal' levels again or prevents the bus failure causing a system wide failure. I'm not sure which one is correct so maybe someone else could clarify.

The best explanation I've seen is here on anandtech.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11110/se ... discovered
That was indeed a good read! However, as that article notes "but if it is a transistor bias issue, then the fix is likely to involve reducing the voltage to the transistor, essentially bringing its degradation back to expected levels" which would fit with the resistor fix.

That still doesn't explain why I can just open my Synology, plug a different PSU in it and be fine. UNLESS, the Synology PSU has a higher voltage than normal PSUs have in a specific rail, for whatever reason?!?!

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