RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

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stiffler
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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by stiffler » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:03 pm

What a punch in the face, for all those who've been waiting for it. including me.

I have waited 6 months because I want not to buy a crappy old cpu and now I get the same old cpu in the new model?
I am really disappointed from synology. The new direction with drive, office, calendar and the new apps looks great. But if you want a RS Model for professional home usage or semi professional usage, you get fuc*ed. Even if I take a 12 bay rack, I get only old cpus.

:(

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by cfuttrup » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:01 pm

stiffler wrote:now I get the same old cpu in the new model?
I'm not affiliated with Synology in any way. This is just my private and personal opinion.

If Synology has chosen to continue to use the ATOM C2538 processor, then it's because Synology has decided that this is the best choice. It is not a crap CPU. I think we can safely assume any problem that Synology was familiar with regarding the C2538 has been resolved, because noone in their rights mind would launch a new product with a flawed CPU. Synology has other CPU's on the shelf, like for example the Celeron J3355 + J3455, as mentioned in this thread, and so the conclusion is that Synology has chosen the C2538 CPU because it is a better choice for the RS818+.

/Claus

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by iknowtech » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:46 pm

cfuttrup wrote:
stiffler wrote:now I get the same old cpu in the new model?
I'm not affiliated with Synology in any way. This is just my private and personal opinion.

If Synology has chosen to continue to use the ATOM C2538 processor, then it's because Synology has decided that this is the best choice. It is not a crap CPU. I think we can safely assume any problem that Synology was familiar with regarding the C2538 has been resolved, because noone in their rights mind would launch a new product with a flawed CPU. Synology has other CPU's on the shelf, like for example the Celeron J3355 + J3455, as mentioned in this thread, and so the conclusion is that Synology has chosen the C2538 CPU because it is a better choice for the RS818+.

/Claus
Clearly the better choice would be the Intel C3000 series CPU's that were specifically designed to supercede the C2000 series.

Other vendors have already started releasing new model hardware on this new platform, its been out long enough now that Synology should be able to come to market with something that uses it by now. I'm sure they got early access so they could have started board design and manufacturing many months ago. Other vendors like SuperMicro had boards showing up on websites days before Intel officially released the CPU. Synology is just resting on their laurels, and trying to milk the product development life cycle for more profit, nothing anyone can say will sway me to think anything else at this point. If the DS2418+ comes out with a C2000 Series CPU, I'm moving to QNAP, and I'm taking my 20-30 NAS's purchases a year for my clients with me.

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by Rob49152 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:22 pm

well it's now official... as is my disappointment.
https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/RS818+

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by lemonadesoda » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:33 pm

I cannot believe this! I too have been waiting for RS815+ replacement. It will be my third deployment in a third location. All linked together, using cloudserver/snyc to maintain data at three site concurrently. My beef:

Drive seems to still be beta, causing data loss for many, and not ideally suited to maintining data over three sites. It is more suited to one server/multiclient, rather than 3 server multisite.
Office is now linked to drive, so I lose office whilst drive is still in betafail mode
RS815+ is great as a fileserver/backup/cloud device but a little underpowered for Virtual, Webserver, Office when there are multiple users. The replacement RS818+ has the same controversial C2xxx processor, underpowered, underefficient compared to C3xxx series and still has that worrysome chipbug. RS818+ also seems to have a HIGHER power consumption than old model. What! It is therefore a downgrade.The only improvement is to have an optional 10Gb network card... but... other than fileserving, no other DSM features could use that bandwidth due to the old C2xxx atom.

What are Synology thinking? I've got too much investment in Synology products to switch my SOHO x3, but if I were recommending/specifying for someone else, I'd tell them to look elsewhere.

Pull your finger out Synology! We want an uptodate 1HE rack that can webserver and office serve. I dont want risky atom C2xxx as my only serverbackboneredundancybackupmirror. Give me a 4 bay low power xeon, or a new 8 or 12 core atom all under 25W TDP.

AKA keep your products up to date!

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by FireMedic949 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:53 am

This is insane. Anyone know how QNAP does with patching/security updates? Are they on par with Synology in this respect?

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by iknowtech » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:54 am

FireMedic949 wrote:This is insane. Anyone know how QNAP does with patching/security updates? Are they on par with Synology in this respect?
If the DS2418+ comes out with the Intel C-2000 Series CPU, I'll be able to tell you shortly thereafter. :)

I don't spend that much time in the Synology DSM UI or Synology provided packages to really care all that much about DSM. As long as the Containerization (Docker) and Virtualization works reliably on the QNAP, I'll make it work for my needs, I need more horsepower and Synology just doesn't seem interested in catering to users that want that. I flat out told the West Coast reseller Rep after he asked in an email what they could be doing to help resellers, that I thought they were making a huge mistake with releasing these new models with the C-2000 Series, and that they needed to step up their game on the hardware side. Frankly he sort of got defensive, and didn't have any responses that were holding water with me, I provided a 2nd retort and never heard anything back after that, so doesn't seem like they are interested in helping this reseller. :)

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by Yippym » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:54 pm

Such a disappointment in showing to consumers that they can't be bothered to update their CPU. Technology is moving fast, yet Synology R&D cannot keep up. Would it be best that Synology prioritise software licensing and get an external company to handle the hardware. Why not allow/sell/encourage more products with removable CPU if price of CPU is out of control?

Let consumer have more choices. It be another few more years before the RackStation get another CPU refresh. Hopefully they will run out of CPU or Intel stop distribute it. Geez
RT2600ac
DS218+ 16GB RAM (2* Crucial CT102464BF160B)
RS3412RPxs 32GB RAM (4* Kingston KVR16LE11/8) upgraded CPU to E3-1260L :)
Sold - RS815+ 16GB RAM (2* Crucial CT102464BF160B)
Sold - RS2212RP+ 1GB RAM (Default)
Sold - RS2211RP+ 3GB RAM (1GB Default + 1* Kingston KVR667D2S5K2)

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by Rob49152 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:48 am

ok so I bought the underwhelming RS818+
good news is that it accepts the RX415 expansion unit just fine. I am currently creating a single SHR-2 volume with BTRFS across 8 x 8Tb drives.

We'll see how long it takes to test and create. At the speed it's going I'd say 3 weeks :(

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by iknowtech » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:50 am

Rob49152 wrote:ok so I bought the underwhelming RS818+
good news is that it accepts the RX415 expansion unit just fine. I am currently creating a single SHR-2 volume with BTRFS across 8 x 8Tb drives.

We'll see how long it takes to test and create. At the speed it's going I'd say 3 weeks :(
I don't think its really recommended to build a single volume across the expansion bay wire. You'll be much more susceptible to data corruption should anything ever break the physical connection or by sudden power loss of either unit. Is there a particular reason you need just one large volume, are you doing SHR2 or RAID6?

I think it would be a safer approach to mount a folder from one volume to the other.

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by Rob49152 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:52 pm

iknowtech wrote:I don't think its really recommended to build a single volume across the expansion bay wire. You'll be much more susceptible to data corruption should anything ever break the physical connection or by sudden power loss of either unit. Is there a particular reason you need just one large volume, are you doing SHR2 or RAID6?

I think it would be a safer approach to mount a folder from one volume to the other.
Well the only way I could get SHR-2 (or SHR) as an option was to select the automatic volume creation. This is what it setup was. I couldn't change it.
I'm not worried. The 2 machines are on the same UPS and the power on the RX415 is disabled automatically by the system when it's setup this way.

My ONLY real worry is that in some update Synology locks out the RX415 because they want to only sell RX418s.

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by lemonadesoda » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:03 pm

I'm with the advice given by iknowtech.

The connection to the RX415 box is via eSATA. Here are some of the issues associated with using an external eSATA cable to distribute a RAID volume.

1. eSATA is like running one SATA cable to a box of multiple drives. The HDD performance of ALL drives in the RX415 is limited to that single eSATA link. If you are writing multiple drives in the RX415 as part of a RAID volume then it slows down the throughput of the whole volume, ie. you have just made your rackstation as slow as the slowest link in the chain, that eSATA port.
2. If the eSATA cable fails, or the eSATA controller fails, it takes down MULTIPLE drives on the RX415. RAID recovery of the internal drives will not be possible without those external drives.
3. If there was a power or mainboard fail on the RX415, then again, multiple drives go down and the RAID cannot be recovered.
4. What if, for some reason, the RX415 wont boot, or wont connect. You cannot mount the volume and recover your data!

I would not put data at risk by RAIDing a single volume over an eSATA cable to multiple drives in an external box. Have two independent volumes. A high speed volume local, and a slower external volume over the eSATA cable.

In practice, I think your setup is actually more at risk because you have introduced new scenarios of failure that don't exist if a volume doesnt span the eSATA port. You are also running slower.

I would invest the time to backup your data, redesign your volumes, then restore.

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Re: RackStation RS815+ Replacement?

Unread post by lemonadesoda » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:11 pm

RS818+

Am I right looking at the photos of the RS818+. It no longer has a modular mainboard, mounted on a rail with screws. ie. you cannot easily remove the mainboard, add memory, replace, all within 60 seconds, while the main case stays screwed in place in the 19" rack (assuming you have rear access to the rack). Now you would have to physically remove the whole unit from a rack, disassemble the case, access the mainboard, add the memory, reassemble the case, then return to rack, reconnect all power and network cables.

Adding memory, or replacing a defective mainboard, became a whole lot more time consuming.

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