Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

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fletchs
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Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:37 pm

Will Hyper backup do a bare metal restore (ie does it make an image or individual files)?



Also trying to decide between local and cloud backup. Right now I am at 900mb probably not ever going over 2t anytime soon.

I found one site that looked like it had good prices until I read their blog and found they add a surcharge if you use synology nas and then it's no longer a good deal. They also appear to charge more if you recover data but implied everyone does it.

Does amazon charge extra for recovery? I have not ready anything bad about them yet but just getting started. I may just add external drive to a computer and do it that way as long as hyper does bare metal restore.

Thanks.

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by telos » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:54 pm

fletchs wrote:Will Hyper backup do a bare metal restore (ie does it make an image or individual files)?
Neither. It's a collection of files/databases. You can't explore backup content with file manager.
Image

fletchs
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:11 am

Ok is there any backup that will:

Make an image

Browse the image to recover individual files?

Something that will recover the nas from scratch and also allow me to get individual files if needed (like MS backup)

Thanks.

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by eaz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:44 am

No that does not exist.

Your demands are conflicting, that is why it is not possible to do this.

An image is easy; setup a raid/shr and the image is always there. But an image is not a backup.
Then most people use hyper backup, this creates the individual file restore possibility, with previous versions. Something an image can never do. It also has incremental backup, you cannot do this with an image. You can explore the data with hyper backup itself or the pc tools. Restore of all data is easy., But you loose some ds settings.


As of cloud providerss, give idrive a try. I do not know amazon drive.
Please share if a reply was useful or how the issue was solved, it helps other DS users.

DS415+ (4TB HGST+ 4TB Seagate raid1 + 2*480GB SSD raid1), DS212+ (2*WD red 2TB), previous DS411J, DS106

fletchs
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:23 pm

eaz wrote:No that does not exist.

Your demands are conflicting, that is why it is not possible to do this.

An image is easy; setup a raid/shr and the image is always there. But an image is not a backup.
Then most people use hyper backup, this creates the individual file restore possibility, with previous versions. Something an image can never do. It also has incremental backup, you cannot do this with an image. You can explore the data with hyper backup itself or the pc tools. Restore of all data is easy., But you loose some ds settings.


As of cloud providerss, give idrive a try. I do not know amazon drive.
Let me explain what I am trying to do:

I manage a ad network and we make images every night. If the system gets corrupted, we can do a restore with that image. It restores the server's settings, everything like it was. A few years ago, one of our servers died because both drives (raid 1) failed and that image from the night before is how we recovered. And yes we can use the image to get individual files as well. That is kinda what I am looking for but it sounds like hyper can't do that, It sounds like hyper protects the user data but what if the system itself gets corrupted? Looking for something that can rebuild the whole system, not just my data if that makes sense?

Thanks.

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eaz
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by eaz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:37 pm

Ok, good information, thanks.

In that case, if you need the NAS to be 100% mirrored to restore a full disk, hyper backup will not help you.
Restoring a DS with only data, would take installation of the DS software, restore the configuration settings, reinstall apps, and restore the backup.

In business environment, a Synology high availability solution is used, where multiple NAS are in sync in a redundant cluster. I think that is more the direction you need.
Please share if a reply was useful or how the issue was solved, it helps other DS users.

DS415+ (4TB HGST+ 4TB Seagate raid1 + 2*480GB SSD raid1), DS212+ (2*WD red 2TB), previous DS411J, DS106

fletchs
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:39 pm

eaz wrote:Ok, good information, thanks.

In that case, if you need the NAS to be 100% mirrored to restore a full disk, hyper backup will not help you.
Restoring a DS with only data, would take installation of the DS software, restore the configuration settings, reinstall apps, and restore the backup.

In business environment, a Synology high availability solution is used, where multiple NAS are in sync in a redundant cluster. I think that is more the direction you need.
No this is for my house, but if the system dies that is it? I must be misunderstanding something- I just can't believe they would make a nas that can't be completely backed up and then restored ?

Maybe not a great solution, but what about using clonezilla on one of the drives manually?

Thanks..

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eaz
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by eaz » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:31 pm

ahhh you really confuse me.. If it is for home use, just use hyper backup and to export of the data form the nas to an external device or the cloud.

Worst case you loose both disk and Nas: you Buy a new Synology DS, put in new disk(s), install the synology OS (30 minutes ), restore the configuration file and package hyperbackup (5 minutes), and then restore alll the data with hyperbackup. Then your system is back up and running.


And certainly you can take out the disk and use a cloning software, I don't know anybody that does that with a NAS as you are always out of dat
Please share if a reply was useful or how the issue was solved, it helps other DS users.

DS415+ (4TB HGST+ 4TB Seagate raid1 + 2*480GB SSD raid1), DS212+ (2*WD red 2TB), previous DS411J, DS106

fletchs
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:08 am

Thanks...as long as I can use clonzilla, I am good...

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eaz
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by eaz » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:11 am

Ok, I can accept people doing things in another way than a system is designed or intended, or what is considered best practice. :D

Mind however that cloning disks in a multi disk setup on the nas will lead to issues. A single disk setup should work.
Please share if a reply was useful or how the issue was solved, it helps other DS users.

DS415+ (4TB HGST+ 4TB Seagate raid1 + 2*480GB SSD raid1), DS212+ (2*WD red 2TB), previous DS411J, DS106

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by telos » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:13 am

No need to image NAS drives. Backup your files and settings w/Hyper (as eaz mentioned). In the worst case, you would let NAS rebuild volume, update DSM and then import your backed-up DSM settings and personal files. I doubt you could ever reimage your drives and expect them to work. Clonezilla (or other) will only give false assurance. Unsure? Try to restore from its images before catastrophe strikes. And be sure to have a backup set (Hyper or other) handy.

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:58 pm

telos wrote:No need to image NAS drives. Backup your files and settings w/Hyper (as eaz mentioned). In the worst case, you would let NAS rebuild volume, update DSM and then import your backed-up DSM settings and personal files. I doubt you could ever reimage your drives and expect them to work. Clonezilla (or other) will only give false assurance. Unsure? Try to restore from its images before catastrophe strikes. And be sure to have a backup set (Hyper or other) handy.

I guess I am a little bit confused. You are saying that hyper WILL backup everything including user accounts, port forwarding setting, everything, etc?

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by telos » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:33 am

Backup your DS config via Control Panel Update & Restore (User, Group, Shared Folder, Workgroup, Domain, and LDAP, SMB, AFP, NFS, FTP, Advanced, Network Backup, User Home, Password Settings, Password Expiration, SNMP, Task Scheduler). You can store your config backup file in a folder that Hyper will backup, or to a thumb drive, or wherever you please. Hyper will not restore the settings, but it will recover your settings backup file if you included it in your backup. You will need to manually restore your NAS config via Control Panel. Hyper won't do that for you AFAIK.

Personally, I won't user Hyper because I want to recover my files outside of the NAS, and I also want to choose which folders are restored initially. So I use multiple backups depending on the criticality of the data. Some reside on a backup HDD (via USB), some on the cloud (via 3rd party backup tools).

Since you seem to prefer Clonezilla, do a test restore and share your experience here.

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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by fletchs » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:16 am

telos wrote:Backup your DS config via Control Panel Update & Restore (User, Group, Shared Folder, Workgroup, Domain, and LDAP, SMB, AFP, NFS, FTP, Advanced, Network Backup, User Home, Password Settings, Password Expiration, SNMP, Task Scheduler). You can store your config backup file in a folder that Hyper will backup, or to a thumb drive, or wherever you please. Hyper will not restore the settings, but it will recover your settings backup file if you included it in your backup. You will need to manually restore your NAS config via Control Panel. Hyper won't do that for you AFAIK.
Ok this is what I didn't understand. This isn't as fast as how I do it at work with an image but is still plenty good enough for home use. I misunderstood and though I had to rebuild the system (configs) from scratch. This will work for me

Personally, I won't user Hyper because I want to recover my files outside of the NAS, and I also want to choose which folders are restored initially. So I use multiple backups depending on the criticality of the data. Some reside on a backup HDD (via USB), some on the cloud (via 3rd party backup tools).

Since you seem to prefer Clonezilla, do a test restore and share your experience here.
What do you mean "recover my files outside of the nas" ? Do you mean it can only restore to the nas and not another network drive? What apps are you using to backup?

Thanks- that first part is a big help.

telos
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Re: Hyper ? and local vs cloud backup

Unread post by telos » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:46 pm

fletchs wrote:What do you mean "recover my files outside of the nas" ? Do you mean it can only restore to the nas and not another network drive? What apps are you using to backup?

Thanks- that first part is a big help.
I need a tool that allows me access to my in cloud backups in the event my NAS fails. For files I deem critical, I use a Windows product, Syncovery. For this to "back-up" my NAS with the cloud, it requires the NAS files to be transferred first to the machine hosting Syncovery, a minor issue for me. This program also enables me to encrypt file/folder names on the cloud, a "must" IMO. I use this program as well to sync certain files on my PC in real-time with the NAS, and to transfer PC drive images to the NAS and to the cloud.

I'm sure there are other solutions, to do all that, but as this is a Hyper forum, I'll avoid going further off-topic.

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