Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Discuss backup and restore functions of the DiskStation to online Cloud backup providers such as Amazon S3, Microsoft Azure, SFR, China Telecom.
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eggzlot
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Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Just migrated data from an older NeatGear to a new RS818+

This unit is mostly used for home use, but due to space I needed something rack mountable. Home setup, 1 Mac, 2 PCs (1 PC is used normal, one is just running an IP camera NVR software recording my home security footage 24x7). the Mac and 1 PC are both 1 TB drives, the 2nd NVR PC is 7 total TB (1 TB + 6 TB drives inside)

In the past I tried the built in PC utilities and 1 paid one (I forget) to get a good PC backup just like Apple Time Machine and always struggled. Does Synology have good solutions built in?

The NAS also hosts 1,000's of live concert audio recordings mostly in FLAC so they are larger files. It also hosts two iTunes accounts, maybe 200 DVD/Blu Ray ripped movies and 1,000's of photos sync'd to Lightroom. When you add all the media, plus the very large time machine back up, I have 2 TB+.

I am ok using the Synology to host the media and the computer back ups, and I'd like weekly/monthly a back up of any changes (anything new or changed) to go to the cloud. I do not need this daily or hourly. If I rip a movie or two and it got lost, so be it, especially if the price jumps a lot from daily back ups to weekly backups. I'd also rarely be calling for this data, I can log into Synology and pull the data remotely, this is really disaster recovering planning in case of theft/fire.

C2 does not appear to be available in the US? What about Backblaze or Wasabi or Amazon S3, etc? And what tool(s) are good for the PC back ups? Lastly, is there a quicker way to move the sparsebundle from the old server to the new one? I tried via FTP connection (couldnt figure out Rsync) and it is taking forever. Part of me is considering just doing a new time machine backup fresh on the new NAS and not worry about the old backups. I am fairly confident I do not need an older copy of a doc I wrote 3 years ago. I mostly use Time Machine as a backup so if the computer broke/stolen I could just get a new Mac and be back up and running.

sieberta
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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by sieberta » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:41 pm

Wow, there is a lot of information and a lot of questions in here. Here are my answers to two of those questions.
eggzlot wrote:Just migrated data from an older NeatGear to a new RS818+
Congrats!
eggzlot wrote:In the past I tried the built in PC utilities and 1 paid one (I forget) to get a good PC backup just like Apple Time Machine and always struggled. Does Synology have good solutions built in?
Checkout Cloud Station Backup: https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowledg ... tionbackup
You could also use Time Machine possibly: https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?t=131394
eggzlot wrote: C2 does not appear to be available in the US? What about Backblaze or Wasabi or Amazon S3, etc?
There are several options, and I've used some/most of them one time or another. Amazon S3 is certainly a viable option. You might also look into Glacier backup for cheaper storage pricing. Backing up to Dropbox or OneDrive can be affordable options (depending on space needs)... but maybe less ideal for 7TB.

sieberta
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Devices: DS415+ (2014), DS216+II (2016), DS916+ (2017)
Applications: Active Directory Server, Antivirus by McAfee, Cloud Station Server, Cloud Sync, CMS, DNS Server, DHCP Server, Hyper Backup, Hyper Backup Vault, SMB/CIFS, SFTP, Snapshot Replication, Storage Analyzer, VPN Server, WebDAV Server

eggzlot
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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:31 pm

Thanks - sorry for delayed response - real world kept me busy
I got the backups on the local PC/Mac to the NAS

Still looking at cloud back up. How do you manage this process? For instance - I got 1,000's of live Concerts in FLAC format. so its really a 1 time upload. if i add something new to the folder it would be nice to sync/mirror to that folder. but ill never be pulling from there to listen, ill listen off the local NAS. so if its a few bux a month would be peace of mind that it is backed up in the cloud.

For Pc/Mac back ups - how does those get managed in the cloud? I do not need very old copies in the cloud, likely just the most recent.

again my thought of the cloud is 1 way usage for disaster recovery. not really for every day use. Glacier a good option? Backblaze?

telos
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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by telos » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:08 am

I would not use cloud for 2+TB. Maybe acquire a second NAS instead.

eggzlot
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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:23 pm

telos wrote:I would not use cloud for 2+TB. Maybe acquire a second NAS instead.
and put the 2nd NAS in another location? I am thinking theft/fire disaster type situations. So a second NAS in the home may not be sufficient?
Is it expensive to throw up 2-3 TB to the cloud and maybe monthly do a replication to make sure the folders are mirrored? I know expensive is subjective but I just spent over $1k on 4 drives and an RS818+. So if I could spend $200/year for cloud that would still get me by for like 6 years before I would hit the cost of a 2nd NAS. Who knows if the NAS hardware will last that long, etc so to me, it seems decent to spend in that ballpark to back up to the cloud.

For PC/Mac back up - same thing, like 1x a month just do a quick sync/mirror. Via the cloud I'd only want to be able to start a new computer - again lets say theft. someone steals my NAS and computer - would like to get a new computer, be able to go to the cloud, get the last time machine back up, and put it on a new Mac. These are personal not business computers, so even a month's old time machine backup is likely sufficient, if I lost 1-2 small files its not the end of the world.

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by telos » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:38 pm

Everyone has differing needs/perspectives. For me, uploading 2TB is quite time consuming. More than that, I'd need to encrypt all my uploaded data, and quite possibly their filenames as well, to achieve the security I'd be comfortable. That's quite a hassle. While a second NAS is convenient, backup can simply be a pair of 4TB WD Reds alternated between offsite storage and an external dock located adjacent to my primary NAS.

I'm sure you can find 2TB cloud storage within your price target. One way to to that is to snag Office 365 Home subscription for $100/year which allows 1TB OneDrive storage each for up to 5 users... (5TB total)... and you get a nice Office package thrown in!

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by flyliner » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:04 pm

I use Amazon Glacier and a program called ARQ: https://www.arqbackup.com

eggzlot
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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:58 pm

flyliner wrote:I use Amazon Glacier and a program called ARQ: https://www.arqbackup.com
thanks for that suggestion
For glacier - is there a fee to upload the data to glacier? I know there is usually a fee for storage, but what about transfering?

and I guess ARQ is the software that can help mirror or replicate various folders on the NAS to glacier?

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by flyliner » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:51 pm

For glacier - is there a fee to upload the data to glacier? I know there is usually a fee for storage, but what about transfering?
I am currently storing 1.5TB on Glacier and have maybe spent ~$75 in total since 2014. Glacier has a strange fee structure based on requests/data/retreival. Basically it doesn't cost much to upload/store data, but when you restore files is where you pay. I use it as a emergency only storage, if I ever get to the point where I need to restore from Glacier I wont care about the cost. Read more here: https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/

ARQ is the software that can help mirror or replicate various folders on the NAS to glacier?
Yes correct, and it runs only on Mac/Windows. I have it running on a Mac, and it backs up files/folders of the mounted shares to Glacier.
Read more on their website, but the most important feature to me is that it encrypts your data BEFORE it leaves your computer. This means that Amazon cannot see your files, all they see is a blob of jibberish.
You can also set budgets, you tell Arq how much money you want to max spend, and it will limit backups to that cost/mo. which I thought is a nice feature.

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:41 pm

flyliner wrote:
For glacier - is there a fee to upload the data to glacier? I know there is usually a fee for storage, but what about transfering?
I am currently storing 1.5TB on Glacier and have maybe spent ~$75 in total since 2014. Glacier has a strange fee structure based on requests/data/retreival. Basically it doesn't cost much to upload/store data, but when you restore files is where you pay. I use it as a emergency only storage, if I ever get to the point where I need to restore from Glacier I wont care about the cost. Read more here: https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/

ARQ is the software that can help mirror or replicate various folders on the NAS to glacier?
Yes correct, and it runs only on Mac/Windows. I have it running on a Mac, and it backs up files/folders of the mounted shares to Glacier.
Read more on their website, but the most important feature to me is that it encrypts your data BEFORE it leaves your computer. This means that Amazon cannot see your files, all they see is a blob of jibberish.
You can also set budgets, you tell Arq how much money you want to max spend, and it will limit backups to that cost/mo. which I thought is a nice feature.
Thanks! Seems like ARQ runs on a Mac or PC. so what about a few TB of media sitting on my NAS I want to replicate? Would ARQ help? Let's say I go on vacation and take 500 photos. I have a folder "Media > Photos" and in there I make another folder "Island Trip" or whatever. in that "Islands Trip" folder I have several sub folders, the original RAW files, edited JPGs for Web and edited JPGs for print. I use lightroom for this stuff. but the point is, when that new "Island Trip" folder is created on the NAS I'd want it on the cloud too. and "Island photos" is never on my Mac or PC. I figure I can use ARQ to point a backup of the computer to the cloud but can it also do files only on the NAS?

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by flyliner » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:25 pm

eggzlot wrote:
flyliner wrote:
For glacier - is there a fee to upload the data to glacier? I know there is usually a fee for storage, but what about transfering?
I am currently storing 1.5TB on Glacier and have maybe spent ~$75 in total since 2014. Glacier has a strange fee structure based on requests/data/retreival. Basically it doesn't cost much to upload/store data, but when you restore files is where you pay. I use it as a emergency only storage, if I ever get to the point where I need to restore from Glacier I wont care about the cost. Read more here: https://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/

ARQ is the software that can help mirror or replicate various folders on the NAS to glacier?
Yes correct, and it runs only on Mac/Windows. I have it running on a Mac, and it backs up files/folders of the mounted shares to Glacier.
Read more on their website, but the most important feature to me is that it encrypts your data BEFORE it leaves your computer. This means that Amazon cannot see your files, all they see is a blob of jibberish.
You can also set budgets, you tell Arq how much money you want to max spend, and it will limit backups to that cost/mo. which I thought is a nice feature.
Thanks! Seems like ARQ runs on a Mac or PC. so what about a few TB of media sitting on my NAS I want to replicate? Would ARQ help? Let's say I go on vacation and take 500 photos. I have a folder "Media > Photos" and in there I make another folder "Island Trip" or whatever. in that "Islands Trip" folder I have several sub folders, the original RAW files, edited JPGs for Web and edited JPGs for print. I use lightroom for this stuff. but the point is, when that new "Island Trip" folder is created on the NAS I'd want it on the cloud too. and "Island photos" is never on my Mac or PC. I figure I can use ARQ to point a backup of the computer to the cloud but can it also do files only on the NAS?

Yes it will back up files/folders on any mounted volume on the host computer. SO, I have my NAS shares mounted on my Mac all the time (it is a file server), I've added the files/folders on the shares I want backed up to the cloud in ARQ and it runs the backup on a schedule I define. On ARQ's website there is a blog post about how to have ARQ mount the shares automatically, but since I have then mounted all the time I don't do that. You can ask the developer any questions you have, he is very responsive..

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by eggzlot » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:16 pm

thanks everyone for your input. between this and some PMs and other research I settled on using Backblaze B2 and the built in cloud sync within Synology. so far so good. Easy to set pricing caps on various features within the Backblaze UI. Can pick if you want to mirror, delete older files as you replace them, etc.

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by mirios » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:08 pm

Hi Guys,

I am in the market for a new NAS and I have been looking at synology for a long time. I jumped on this topic as I am curious on the rest of you guys's method to uphold the 3-2-1 rule.

In my head I wanted my NAS to be the one that holds my backups and then i wanted to use Backblaze B2 as it can backup straight from the NAS. I use to have crashplan but they stopped their consumer products also that solution only backed up my personal computer.

With this approach above i can see holding the 3-2-1 approach where you have your files 1st copy be the PC then NAS be the 2nd copy then Backblaze B2 will be the third.

However, the issue lies when i decide to the use the NAS as a plex server as well. Then the 1st copy of the movie files will lie in the NAS itself and the 2nd copy would be in Backblaze. I'm curious what other guys do at this point? Seems it is more a question how paranoid you are.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by sieberta » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:12 pm

Here is my proposal.

1st copy on NAS (fixes your problem with PLEX and also is nice if you have multiple users accessing the data - vs. on the laptop). I would do a RAID option of 1 or 5, which almost counts as one of your backup sources (but not completely).
2nd copy of USB attached to NAS (biggest downside here is theft, fire/water, and malware could get the USB drive while attached if it is always mounted)
3rd copy on Synology C2. I like this service because not only does it use HyperBackup, but it also allows you to pull individual files right from the cloud if your NAS is offline. It is kindof pricey, however, if you have more than 1TB of data.

The only problem with HyperBackup, is Synology has been known to leave backups in the dust when they update the application. You can still back up to them, and restore from them, but you can't relink them, sometimes, if they are from an older HyperBackup version.

I also recommend BTRFS with snapshots on NAS, and multiple versions of backups on USB and in C2.

I used to do NAS to NAS snapshots in a remote location, but that became infeasible for me recently as I don't have the remote location anymore. Each option has it's own pros and cons.

sieberta
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Devices: DS415+ (2014), DS216+II (2016), DS916+ (2017)
Applications: Active Directory Server, Antivirus by McAfee, Cloud Station Server, Cloud Sync, CMS, DNS Server, DHCP Server, Hyper Backup, Hyper Backup Vault, SMB/CIFS, SFTP, Snapshot Replication, Storage Analyzer, VPN Server, WebDAV Server

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Re: Help with establishing a backup plan locally and the cloud

Unread post by mirios » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Thanks! I will do this!

If i put everything in the NAS then i would think that it be best to do a file backup (direct copy and paste to view files in plex etc), an image backup (of the PCs being backed up there) for operating system and program backup, a compressed file backup for the PCs different than that of the image backups, and phone backups (like external iTunes backup of my iphone and my girlfriends etc.). Then i would think the 2nd copy would be an external drive as you say. But should I copy only the image backup and the compressed file backups to those (including the phone backups)? I would think 'yes' as that way your external drive doesn't have to have as much storage as your NAS.

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