How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

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How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby slavikf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:01 am

I have Win 8 on my computer
Also, I am the owner of Synology DS412+.

I see no any guides / no info in the manual on how to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage.
Can't find anything on this forum / in Google.

I found, that I can create iSCSI LUNs, but still, do not understand, if / how I should used that for VMs.
Or should I just point to Synology network path, as "Virtual Hard Disks" location? But then I would not have ability to rely on Synology for operations, such as cloning. Right?

Any advice?
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby slavikf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:44 am

Tried to use it in simplest mode:
- Created share "VMs"
- Ran Hyper-V command "move" to move VM from my local hard drive to \\Synology\VMs\VM1. It failed: can't access the file.
So, I did Google search, and found, that Hyper-V doesn't really work with CIFS. For example here:
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/For ... 239a4e61c/

Here is some hacks to make it works, but that will not work with Synology system:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/enterprise_a ... twork.aspx

So, now the question: how to make my "certified" Synology to work with Hyper-V?
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby upgraders » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:43 pm

Please let me know how you get on with this. I just ordered a DS1812+ and plan to use it as a VM host storage using iSCSI. I'm trying to read up on any issues people have had. I was hoping this was an older post, until I see you made it today/yesterday! I assume that the permissions to grant moving a a VM is based on the iSCSI host connected to it to allow computer access based on the "hack" through the use of ActiveDirectory however using iSCSI you should use it on its own network and switch, which means you would need to open it up to the AD servers. If access/permission is controlled through the DS unit, can't you open it wide up for "everyone"? if you were running on a closed network (isolated switch) it would be safe. Or could you just move the VHDs to the iSCSI and resetup the server and HAL the one time and then it be safe? Then you could connect another HyperV server in a cluster to serve for live migration.

These are my thoughts, but I can't say much since I have never worked with this unit yet and I won't have one here until later this week.

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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby slavikf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:53 pm

upgraders wrote:I assume that the permissions to grant moving a a VM is based on the iSCSI host connected to it to allow computer access based on the "hack" through the use of ActiveDirectory


1) I was asking how to use Synology device, as storage for VMs. Without any iSCSI. And I can't. That's what my links and "hacks" in previous post about. It has nothing to do with iSCSI.

2) I do not know, how correctly use Synology with Hyper-V. I can't find any info on that in the user manual or Wiki.

There is wiki articles on how to
"How to use iSCSI target service on Synology NAS" - http://www.synology.com/support/tutoria ... s&q_id=488

And "How to use iSCSI Target on Windows Server" - http://www.synology.com/support/tutoria ... s&q_id=473

But, these articles about iSCSI, not about Hyper-V.

For example, in VMWare ESXi, you can just simply add datastore and point to iSCSI LUN.

For Hyper-V, you can "connect" (if its right term) to LUN, created on Synology and then use it, as storage for your VMs. It can be workaround for issue with permissions, I mentioned above. But that's totally wrong configuration, because:
- I can make LUN clone / snapshot, but if I have 2 or more VMs stored in my LUN, then all of them cloned / copied, so I can't work with them independently. I am not sure, if that will work, If I make separate LUN for each VM, but that's alot or manual work and is not integrated with Hyper-VM management console
- If I do not use Synoplogy LUN clone / snapshot capabilities, then Hyper-V by itself simply works with storage, as with normal network device, without gaining any speed / efficiency.

So, I have no idea, why Synology market their devices as certified for use with Hyper-V. I am not sure, if anyone tried - there is no any tutorials / guides / manuals for that. And there are some major issues (as mentioned in my posts above).

I submitted support ticket on April 1st. Let's see, what they will say.
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby upgraders » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:01 pm

Ah.. sorry. It says it supports SMB file sharing so that is not working? (I don't know much about this with Synology) but a Microsoft SMB works I think. I hope you find a solution, but I think iSCSI is the only way since HyperV runs under the OS it needs a way to authenticate.
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby slavikf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 pm

upgraders wrote:Ah.. sorry. It says it supports SMB file sharing so that is not working? (I don't know much about this with Synology) but a Microsoft SMB works I think. I hope you find a solution, but I think iSCSI is the only way since HyperV runs under the OS it needs a way to authenticate.

Synology supports SMB file sharing.
But you can't use it for Hyper-V VMs storage, because you have to add your Hyper-V server, as "computer" object to your shared folder. Synology supports only "users" objects, and doesn't support "computer" object. Or may be you need ActiveDirectory for this kind of object. I am not sure, but that doesn't work in my case (I do not use ActiveDirectory)
I think, you can make Hyper-V works with SMB, if you completely disable any authentication for all shares (not sure, if that can be done), but that's unacceptable in my case - I need authentication.

I would gladly use iSCSI, but I could not find how to configure Synology iSCSI to work with Hyper-V. Just to be clear - I can create iSCSI LUNs, and mount it in my Windows server (as I described above), but without any benefits, promised by Synology Hyper-V certification.
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby upgraders » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:22 pm

I hope they reply to you with a solution, (And if you could share it) because I'll be firing off a support ticket for the same problems! The whole reason I bought it was because of the "Certification" and support for HyperV
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby slavikf » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:41 pm

upgraders wrote:I hope they reply to you with a solution, (And if you could share it) because I'll be firing off a support ticket for the same problems! The whole reason I bought it was because of the "Certification" and support for HyperV

I suggest you file support ticket anyway. May this'll get it higher priority
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby upgraders » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:11 pm

Looks like I'll have to wait until it gets here, as the serial number is required to put in a ticket
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby FTR192 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:09 pm

iSCSI is the correct way to do it, how much do you know about it? I'm by no means totally clued up on iSCSI but heres the way I set it up with Hyper-V...

1 - Create your iSCSI LUN on your diskstation,
The LUN is the actual iSCSI storage, think of it like a volume. You can create File Level LUN which sits alongside shares within an existing volume, or a Block Level LUN which is on it's own dedicated HDD or RAID volume. I normally reserve a dedicated drive and create a Block level LUN.

2 - Create iSCSI Target on diskstation,
The target is what points your iSCSI Initiator (the client thats connecting in) to the LUN, it's the middle-man. The target sorts out things like login authentication and what user can access what LUN(s) etc, since we're just mapping a single LUN you can just leave the settings in the wizard at default if I remember correctly, just make sure when it asks you map the target to the LUN you created.

3 - Connect to the Target on your client
Fire up iSCSI initiator on your Windows 8 machine and connect to the target you created, it'll have an IQN name that if you leave as default (on my diskstation at least) is iqn.2000-01.com.synology:DiskStation.name

4 - Look in disk management on the Windows 8 machine, you'll see an extra drive has appeared... that's your iSCSI drive. You can now format it and use it just like it was a hard drive connected directly to your PC. So go ahead and format it as NTFS, give it a drive letter and move your VM's to it :D

Hope that's helpful :wink:
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby hans_lenze » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:36 pm

FTR192 wrote:iSCSI is the correct way to do it, how much do you know about it? I'm by no means totally clued up on iSCSI but heres the way I set it up with Hyper-V...

1 - Create your iSCSI LUN on your diskstation,
The LUN is the actual iSCSI storage, think of it like a volume. You can create File Level LUN which sits alongside shares within an existing volume, or a Block Level LUN which is on it's own dedicated HDD or RAID volume. I normally reserve a dedicated drive and create a Block level LUN.

2 - Create iSCSI Target on diskstation,
The target is what points your iSCSI Initiator (the client thats connecting in) to the LUN, it's the middle-man. The target sorts out things like login authentication and what user can access what LUN(s) etc, since we're just mapping a single LUN you can just leave the settings in the wizard at default if I remember correctly, just make sure when it asks you map the target to the LUN you created.

3 - Connect to the Target on your client
Fire up iSCSI initiator on your Windows 8 machine and connect to the target you created, it'll have an IQN name that if you leave as default (on my diskstation at least) is iqn.2000-01.com.synology:DiskStation.name

4 - Look in disk management on the Windows 8 machine, you'll see an extra drive has appeared... that's your iSCSI drive. You can now format it and use it just like it was a hard drive connected directly to your PC. So go ahead and format it as NTFS, give it a drive letter and move your VM's to it :D

Hope that's helpful :wink:
Richard


This is the one and only way to work with Hyper-V in combination with a Synology device: through iSCSI.


SMB3 is supported in Hyper-V 3 (Server 2012) but ONLY version 3. See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 34187.aspx for all the information on setting up Hyper-V with SMB shared storage.
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby ivovanhoovels » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 pm

In step 4 you (quick)format the volume. Suppose everything works happily on host1 (the vhd's on the SCSI target DS412+) and then host1 crashed and/or you want to replace it with host2 (ASAP). How usefull is it then having to reformat the volume with all your VHD data,thereby destroying everything.
Where is the "sharing" functionality, you put the VDH in a central storage not having to reformat it...

Any other ideas?
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby ColdFire » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:16 pm

When you have two Hyper-V Hosts you can do it in two ways:
1. Microsoft Failover Cluster - You have 2 or more Windows servers running in a Microsoft cluster, which can support various clustered services, one of which is Hyper-V. You setup the iSCSI and create as many LUN's as you need for your individual VM's. If you create a separate LUN for each VM then you can allocate space as you need it and move individual VM's between hosts easily.
The key is that once you have setup all the LUN's you connect all of your cluster hosts to all of the LUN's so they can all see the same disks/lun's on the same shared Synology. The most important part is to only bring the drives 'online' and format them on one host server. The other hosts can still see the volume but only as offline. If you bring it online on another host it will break everything!

You then add the lun's as cluster storage resources and setup Hyper-V VM's on those cluster storage areas.

Read up on Microsoft clustering and iSCSI shared storage. Once you have this setup you can live migrate (move a server when it is turned on, without losing data!). You do not need to re-format the drive to use it on another host.

2. Manually - You could do the same as above, but instead of using Microsoft clustering you could connect each host to only the iSCSI LUNs that it needs at that time. If host 1 died then you would have to connect host 2 to the LUN that was used on host 1 before and then bring that LUN online. But you wouldn't have to format it!

Hope that helps!

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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby Bren0man » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:22 am

I wouldn't recommend doing this in a business environment but here's some info for someone just looking to get Hyper-V storage working on the NAS:

I'm running a PC with Windows 8 Pro and I have a DS1515+ connected via ethernet. My PC's SSD is only 120GB so I don't want the storage for my VMs on C: for obvious reasons.

Using Hyper-V Manager, I initially attempted to create a VM stored on my main NAS share but that failed (I suspect due to permissions). I then just created one on my C: with the intention of moving it to my NAS once I sorted out whatever the issue was. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to matter that I did, I just couldn't move the thing to my NAS. Kept getting error messages.

So after failing at moving the VM, I decided to create a new share in the base folder of my NAS, give everyone full access to it and create a fresh VM in the new share. Worked great. I now have my VM stored on my NAS so it's not taking up precious space on my C: and performance seems just fine.

Hope this helps someone at some point!
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Re: How to use Synology for Hyper-V VM storage?

Postby edanto » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:02 am

Thanks to FTR192 for the step by step; it's helped me to get started on a home lab.
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