LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

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morpheus
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LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by morpheus » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:26 pm

... ok ... I have used the idle3ctl tool explained here :

http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic ... 24&t=37967

(native tool in the synology NAS, as the wdidle solution was not ok for me to create the bootable usb, connect the HDD on my laptop, ...), and ran a get to know the actual value set on my HDD ... and the result is quite surprising !!

DiskStation> ./idle3ctl -g /dev/sda
Idle3 timer is disabled
DiskStation> ./idle3ctl -g /dev/sdb
Idle3 timer is disabled


"Idle3 timer is disabled" ???

On the other hand, I had seen this morning the SMART was showing 146649 LCC for 5004 hours, which represents 29 LCC per hour since the beginning

At this moment, I have 146650 LCC for 5010 hours.

So I only got 1 LCC in 6 hours ... so in other terms, it looks like the LSS count is not present anymore on my HDD/ NAS

Do I react correctly telling that the issue is not present as the Idle3 timer is disabled ?
Is it possible the DSM upgrades solved this issue ??

Any help appreciated here !

Many thanks.

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K1LL3M
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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by K1LL3M » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:47 am

It's possible it was over come by DSM
Just Keep an eye on it for a couple of days and see how it goes. Watch the other values mentioned and see if they line up.

Just an FYI as this is all related to your same issue, it would more suitable to keep them all in the one thread. Its better for the forum and makes tracking your progress easier for all, particularly others who may be looking for the same answers.

Edited (auto-correct) spelling
Last edited by K1LL3M on Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
RS3411xs + RX1211 + RX1211 (6GB Ram)
Hitachi 3TB (HDS723030ALA640/MKAOA3B0)x 16
Hitachi 4TB x6
WD RED 6TB x12(Coming soon)
SHR/2
DSM 5.4493 (Latest at time)

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by morpheus » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:22 pm

Here are numbers from today :

Date Load Cycle Count Power on hours LCC / hours
146649 5002 29,32
16/09/2011 146650 5010 29,27
17/09/2011 146650 5027 29,17
18/09/2011 146650 5059 28,98

morpheus
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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by morpheus » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:01 am

I got confirmation from synology that it is solved by the DSM 1922 :

The RD team has confirmed the idle3 is built-in v.1922 and the function will automatically work. The only thing you need to do is to make a power off (please press the power button) after your DSM update, then power on the DS211 again and it's all done.

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by K1LL3M » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:58 am

Nice work Synology
RS3411xs + RX1211 + RX1211 (6GB Ram)
Hitachi 3TB (HDS723030ALA640/MKAOA3B0)x 16
Hitachi 4TB x6
WD RED 6TB x12(Coming soon)
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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by dipdeol » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:44 pm

morpheus wrote:I got confirmation from synology that it is solved by the DSM 1922 :

The RD team has confirmed the idle3 is built-in v.1922 and the function will automatically work. The only thing you need to do is to make a power off (please press the power button) after your DSM update, then power on the DS211 again and it's all done.
Does this mean that they automatically disable the idle timer? Is it the same as if we did it manually?

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by morpheus » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:40 am

mmm is it really wise to disable this idle3 timer ?
I guess if it is there is used for something right ?

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by LosOutlandos » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:35 pm

morpheus wrote:I got confirmation from synology that it is solved by the DSM 1922 :

The RD team has confirmed the idle3 is built-in v.1922 and the function will automatically work. The only thing you need to do is to make a power off (please press the power button) after your DSM update, then power on the DS211 again and it's all done.
It's nice that Synology seems to adress issues that WD builds into it's drives, but do I understand correctly that this is done automatically without me having a say in the matter?
Also, the "please press the power button" is a bit irritating, can't I just restart my DS via Web-GUI or does it have to be completely off?

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by maxxfi » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:18 am

LosOutlandos wrote: Also, the "please press the power button" is a bit irritating, can't I just restart my DS via Web-GUI or does it have to be completely off?
When it's matter of disk firmware (and settings) sometimes a warm start (i.e. reboot) is not enough, as some settings become active only when the power is turned on.
This is probably what WD recommends, and so Synology in their implementation cannot suggest to act differently.
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DS-106j > DS-210j > DS-411

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LCC issue IS "automatically solved" by DSM 3.2-1922

Unread post by Sponge1971 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:36 am

Hi all,

I'm pretty sure I can confirm it...

> > > The Tale of Two WD15EARS-00S8B1 < < <

I had my Vol2 drive crash a few weeks ago. This drive's raison d'etre was to act as a local backup drive to Vol1. Every 24hrs I had the DS210j perform a backup of what had changed on Vol1 (relative to what was already on Vol2). Needless to say I freaked :shock: when I realised my asleep-23-hours-a-day-for-the-last-year-and-a-half drive had cacked. I could just imagine how the Vol1 (master working drive) was doing...what?...oh yes...of course the Vol1 drive was the 'exact' same drive as the crashed Vol2 drive...I bought them at the same time...from the same store...in the same damn box... :oops: I guess that wasn't too smart?...
Anyway, I pulled the Vol2 drive scanned it all up (using WD's takes-forever-assed diagnostics proggy and it came up with some bad sectors. Off to RMA it went...
Before all this, I did do some screengrabs of what the DS210j had to say about that disk. I figured I might need it, to fight WD with.

I ran out and got one of those 3TB WD Elements external usb drive thingys because they have a WD30EZRX stuffed in there...and it costs ~$20 less than a bare OEM drive !! :lol: plus you get a nice enclosure (read: coffin) for your about-to-self-destruct worn out 1.5TB drive! My plan was to put the 3TB in, copy all the data from Vol1 and then just run with the new 3TB drive. I extracted the 3TB (with very little damage to the enclosure), don't remember the details...but it went into the DS210j and got all formated up and good to go. I had 3TB of storage available! on a 2TB spec'd device! :P Of course the pleasure was short lived, when I couldn't just do a "copy *.*" from Vol1 to the new 3TB Vol2...<sigh>. I slowly came to realise that even a single disk get's all raid-ed up when it's installed and there was just too much to fuss with. In the end, I pulled the 3TB, and put it back in it's enclosure. I ended up USBing my entire Vol1 data onto the 3TB...took forever, but at least it was safe...

Weeks later a new refurbed 1.5TB shows up. I don't know why...maybe I was Googling drive prep for Synology, but I stumbled onto the LCC fiasco and my heart sank... I was really glad I didn' buy 2 of those 3TB drives as an upgrade for he DS210j...since they had a problem. The more I read the more I blammed LCC on my failed Vol2 drive. Then I remembered he screen grabs! I had a printout of the S.M.A.R.T. data for that RMA'd drive! I dug it out:

(old dead drive, RMA'd for bad sectors)
WD15EARS-00S8B1 ser#.....483
Power_On_Hours - 13360
Load_Cycle_Count - 1867893
That works out to ~140 LCC per hour...for the last 1.5 years!


Then I checked the Vol1 drive...happily still serving away in my unit:
WD15EARS-00S8B1 ser#.....550
Power_On_Hours - 13886
Load_Cycle_Count - 2061221
That works out to ~148 LCC per hour...for the last 1.5 years!

Holly krap! :shock: now I was super-freaking... this drive is ready to die at any moment!

Lots of frantic reading/understanding has gone on in the last few evenings:

- I decided to set Idle3 to 300 seconds.
- I had given up trying to get a DOS boot USBstik working...I had emm386 errors and who knows. I managed to get FreeDOS working, but the wdidle3 utility just seemed to hang. (yes, drives were plugged directly to the MB)
- a final attempt landed me on this page "idle3-tools.sourceforge.net"
Some genius guy seems to have ported the wdidle3 utility to Linux...(and it works like a charm ! :D ) It's pretty easy to setup, just follow the page instructions.

Here's the point of all this (for those of you still here... :wink: )

I decided to check all my WD Green drives and see what was what...

Old (still running) 11.5B Vol1 Disk = "Idle 3 disabled"
brand new 3TB drive = "Idle 3 disabled"
refurbished (still in box) 1.5TB drive = "Idle Time 8 seconds"

I found it v-e-r-y weird that some drives were disabled, some not, and there was nothing common about them. Then I remembered! the 3TB had been inside the DS210j, as the original old drive had...and they were both disabled. The new RMA drive hadn't been anywhere and it was 8 seconds. I suspected the DS210j had done this (I hadn't yet read this post).

Here's why I can confirm DSM 3.2-1922 does eliminate the LCC issue:

- I reset the old 1.5TB drive to an idle time of 300 seconds. (hard powered off my entire system, and re-confirmed the setting was still 300 seconds). I simply plugged the drive into the DS210j and booted it up. It took a while (as usual) but a few minutes, and a lot of purring, later...it was booted back up and serving again. I booted it back down and re-checked the idle timer..."disabled". 8)

I'm confident to say that DSM 3.2-1922 will stop the LCC in it's tracks. Just update (if your not already at DSM 3.2-1922) and then be sure to do a hard 'power off' type reboot.


It's a bummer that Synology couldn't just massage the timer to suit the dataflow timing...since we lose some of the power/temperature savings of having Green drives...but a least they won't "wood pecker" themselves to death anymore...


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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by rushino » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:33 pm

Interresting. So all this **** are finally fixed. Thanks Synology :) However, shouldnt we set the timer manually after this ?
Synology DS-212 (Waiting for shipping...) w/ 1x WD20EARX (2TB)

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by PhatboyC » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Very important to do a hard power shutoff AFTER the DSM 3.2-1922 is running.

Just had to do a RMA a the WD 2TB green drive caused after a year it crashed because of a too high LCC. Though I was in the clear after I upgraded the DSM and installed the replacement drive. To my surprise my LCC was still going sky high already at 14922 after 2 weeks. This morning before shutting down I upgraded the DSM to 3.2-1944, boot up then hard shutdown then bootup again. So far so good for the LCC which stayed put.

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by JohnD76 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:19 am

Can someone explain exactly what needs to be done for the DSM to manage/disable the WDIdle count please?

I am running 3.2.1955 and have powered off the DS1511+ and DX510's several times since upgrading firmware and my LLC count is still increasing on the single 3TB green drive that has not had WDIdle run manually on it.

Powered on hours 1103 and LLC of 4629 and rising compared to 4574 powered on hours and 399 for a drive that has had WDidle run against it when connected via Sata to my PC.

I have hard powered off the device again this morning, and will keep an eye on the LLC, but for me at least, with the 3TB drive in a DX510, the DSM firmware does not appear to be preventing the LLC from increasing.

Cheers,

John.

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by maxxfi » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:51 am

At least in DSM 1944 (and I think it's also in 1955) the command to disable WDidle is run at every shutdown (because the disk needs to be physically powered off to use the new setting). The script is located at /usr/syno/etc/rc.d/S99WDidle3Dis.sh
If you can access your NAS from ssh/telnet, you can check if the WDidle has been disabled running this command (please login as root):

Code: Select all

for d in `/usr/syno/bin/synodiskport -sata` ; do echo "*** /dev/$d ***"; /usr/syno/bin/syno_disk_ctl --wd-idle -g /dev/$d; done
This will poll each disk slot and returns the following (in results below /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, etc. are disk slot names so they change)

For each WD disk where it's able to read the timer (and [0] means that is successfully disabled)

Code: Select all

Get /dev/sda WD idle3 timer [0] successfully
For each *empty* disk slot

Code: Select all

Cannot open device /dev/sdb
fail iRet -1
For a slot that contains a non-WD disk

Code: Select all

fail iRet 1
No longer using Synology NAS, moved to more open source solutions.
DS-106j > DS-210j > DS-411

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Re: LCC issue "automatically solved" by DSM or ... ?

Unread post by JohnD76 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:52 pm

Hi Maxxfi,

Many thanks for the reply. I have run the command you kindly pasted but this is only returning wdidle results for the bays in the D1511+ and not the DX510's...

Do you know how/if I can extend the command line to return results for both DX510's as well?

Many thanks once again,

John.

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