Intel C2000 Series Failures

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brimur
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Re: Will Intel C2000 based NASes need replacing?

Postby brimur » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:41 pm

ctb_ wrote:My DS1515+ just up and died last week. Synology support was great about issuing an RMA right away. I'm also concerned about my pfSense firewall (Netgate SG-2440) which has an Atom C2358 in it. Sigh.


Its great they replaced it but they have replaced it with the same NAS so I would assume the same CPU.
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xed
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby xed » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:21 pm

Well this really sucks.

From Intel: https://www-ssl.intel.com/content/dam/w ... update.pdf

Table 5:

0h - A0/A1
8h - B0 Stepping ID

Stepping B0 is the affected CPU/processor.

Looking at /proc/cpuinfo:


admin@DiskStation:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 77
model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU C2538 @ 2.40GHz
stepping : 8
microcode : 0x121
cpu MHz : 2400.000
cache size : 1024 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 4
core id : 0
cpu cores : 4
apicid : 0
initial apicid : 0
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 11
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes rdrand lahf_lm 3dnowprefetch arat epb dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid tsc_adjust smep erms
bogomips : 4800.19
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management:

So, "stepping" 8 is in fact the B0 stepping affected by this design flaw.

I am stuck with two of the DS 1815+ that use the C2538 processor as well as a PFsense SG-4880 that also uses a C2558 processor that are *all* subject to this design issue. I am really hoping Netgate and Synology step up here and honour a repair when the 18 month timebomb comes around.
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby cfuttrup » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:00 pm

I have a DS415+ which uses the ATOM C2538 CPU, one of the affected products.

:cry:

What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have

/Claus
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby sze » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:30 pm

Hi,

I have also a DS1815+ with B0 stepping. Is there any statement from Synology?
necrosis
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby necrosis » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Updated to add at 14:29 UTC, February 7
Synology told The Reg it was "investigating this issue together with Intel," saying it would "provide more detailed information in the week as it becomes available."

It added: "At this time Synology has not seen any indication that this issue has caused an increase in failure rates for DiskStation or RackStation models equipped with Intel Atom C2000 series processors. However once additional information is available, Synology will post an advisory on this topic.

"In the meantime it is still safe to continue to use your device, however should you encounter any issues these will be handled via our support teams and all the devices are still covered under the standard warranty provided with all our units. Technical Support can be reached via www.synology.com/ticket.

Updated to add at 15:36 UTC, February 7
Synology subsequently asked to have its statement above revised to omit any mention of Intel.


Source: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/0 ... ulty_chip/
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby dangerm0us » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:22 pm

And still Intel not wanting a 'mention'..... Even though the cat is clearly out of the bag.

In Intel's last earnings call, they advised investors that profitability for the quarter was down, due to having to keep a big swag of cash aside relating to a product issue.

That product, ladies and gentlemen, is their C2000 series chips. Intel obviously know this is going to cost them a lot of money and have acknowledged there is an issue, and plan to fix it. But don't get too excited, as no doubt they will be preferencing big customers like Cisco first. Us SOHO/Home users are going to come last. I feel sorry for the [Please control your language] storm coming Synology's way. But, that's not my fault, and I want my DS1815's fixed/replaced before they go belly up. Synology have to play this right, or they stand to lose a lot of customers. Ironically, the only one that probably won't suffer all that much in the end will be Intel. I guess time will tell. I bet Synology wish they went with ARM SoC's instead. :(
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby DasBiest » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:33 am

dangerm0us wrote:And still Intel not wanting a 'mention'..... Even though the cat is clearly out of the bag.

In Intel's last earnings call, they advised investors that profitability for the quarter was down, due to having to keep a big swag of cash aside relating to a product issue.

That product, ladies and gentlemen, is their C2000 series chips. Intel obviously know this is going to cost them a lot of money and have acknowledged there is an issue, and plan to fix it. But don't get too excited, as no doubt they will be preferencing big customers like Cisco first. Us SOHO/Home users are going to come last. I feel sorry for the [Please control your language] storm coming Synology's way. But, that's not my fault, and I want my DS1815's fixed/replaced before they go belly up. Synology have to play this right, or they stand to lose a lot of customers. Ironically, the only one that probably won't suffer all that much in the end will be Intel. I guess time will tell. I bet Synology wish they went with ARM SoC's instead. :(

I wouldn't have bought an synology if it wasn't for the C2538 :roll:
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby generious » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:22 am

Synology need to put out a statement on this asap.
In the meantime for me it's going to be spent moving the VMs off the Synology datastores...

Not waiting for my 1515+ to go bang.
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby DesertEgo » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:15 pm

If Cisco do a recall on this then the ball is really in Synology's court to do the same.

Saying that this isn't an issue and failure rates aren't that high compared to other products isn't going to cut it when intel are saying almost the opposite. Intel have put aside reserves to deal with this issue.

If this was medical equipment or a failure in a car there would be a recall, but since it's data at risk then thats ok?
JasonJoel
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby JasonJoel » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:53 pm

My DS1815+ just died... On its way back to Synology for replacement. It would be nice if they delayed replacing mine and sent me a fixed one, before I have to send it back a 2nd time for the inevitable recall on these...
lburns
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby lburns » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:03 am

So, okay...
I too got the canned reply from Synology to my ticket.

Intel has recently notified Synology regarding the issue of the processor’s increased degradation chance of a specific component after heavy, prolonged usage.


Specific component? ITS THE PROCESSOR - stop playing word games.

Synology has not currently seen any indication that this issue has caused an increase in failure rates for DiskStation or RackStation models equipped with Intel Atom C2000 series processors


Of course you haven't... not YET - and it WILL happen.

It is safe to continue to use your device, however should you encounter any issues, our support teams will do everything they can to expedite your ticket.


Oh really....

So, WHEN it fails, suddenly and fantastically, and very likely damages some if not ALL of the data on this unit, you'll try to get me a new one as fast as possible.

I didn't buy a Synology product so that I could put my data at risk.
I REFUSE to sit here and wait for this bomb to go off!

Will you continue to dodge the issue and be non committal, thereby increasing our paranoia that our data is going to disappear?

I, for one will not.

Look, if I wanted to play games with my data, and spend thousands on drives and countless hours incorporating it into our hoe and office, only to have to suddenly DISAPPEAR one day, I would have grabbed an old PC and loaded FREENAS!

(in fact that seems a smart thing to do in light of the level of risk we are ALL facing.)

Tell me ONE MORE TIME that you will help me when and IF this happens and see how fast I sign onto the first Class Action that comes along.

Do the right thing and PUBLISH AN ACTION PLAN for what you will do when a solution is decided upon.

You don't need to know WHAT that solution is to tell us how Synology plans to protect it's customers.
That kind of decision isn't made in the moment - it's a corporate culture and ETHICS thing that you should already have WELL formulated.
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby lockian » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:54 am

That's not good news at all Iburns.

My expectation is nothing short of:
a) A recall of effected units for board replacement
or
b) A mailout of a replacement board for effected devices for customers who elect to refit the board themselves (and the appropriate warranty voiding exemptions to allow this)

Anything short of this is surely ample grounds for class action for any product effected by this issue.
DS2415+
digriz
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby digriz » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:04 am

You should prob all open tickets for this. I did.
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby lburns » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:11 am

lockian wrote:That's not good news at all Iburns.

My expectation is nothing short of:
a) A recall of effected units for board replacement
or
b) A mailout of a replacement board for effected devices for customers who elect to refit the board themselves (and the appropriate warranty voiding exemptions to allow this)

Anything short of this is surely ample grounds for class action for any product effected by this issue.



Absolutely what the rest of us expect as well…

It seems obvious that they should go ahead and post scenarios under which they would make certain responses to give us some assurance that we're not gonna be left hanging or in a condition of being completely locked out of our data.

Sinology could really set the standard here for what is going to be no doubt, a HUGE issue for thousands of people.

Why blend in with those playing games and instead not lead the pack, and in the act get their name all over the world as an organization who knew how to take care of customers.
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Re: Intel C2000 Series Failures

Postby GendoIkari » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:28 am

I am currently freaking out because I have a RS2416 NAS that I use for all of my backups. I was planning to copy everything over to externals, but this just pushes my schedule forward even more. I was thinking of getting at least one RS815+ too, but that uses the same C2538 CPU as my RS2416! Dear god I'm having a panic attack over this. I saved up and bought a nearly two thousand dollar NAS for my home because of Synology's reputation, and now? I don't even know if they will replace it if it goes belly up...

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