Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported!

Discuss backup and restore functions of the DiskStation with respect to computer clients, such as Synology Data Replicator, Time Machine, or other client backup software.
Forum rules
This is a user forum for Synology users to share experience/help out each other: if you need direct assistance from the Synology technical support team, please use the following form:
https://myds.synology.com/support/suppo ... p?lang=enu

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby jonny72 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:58 pm

I've just had it happen again - about 24 hours after Time Machine had recreated the backup following the previous failure.

As others have pointed out, the key to resolving this is to raise a support ticket with Synology when it happens and to keep following up with them until there is a resolution. Whilst it could be an Apple problem, pursuing with Synology makes more sense as if they can identify an Apple issue they'd at least have a chance of getting them to do something about it.
jonny72
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:14 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:02 pm

Jonny, I agree! Although my support session may have run its course when I told Synology I would not give them admin access to my disk station.
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby jonny72 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:15 pm

Personally, I wouldn't be concerned about giving admin access to Synology support. It's pretty common in the corporate world, no reason to believe they'd do anything they shouldn't - just create a separate admin login for them so there is an audit trail. Though I understand the concern and don't see why they couldn't use a remote session instead.

It seems like this is being handled by their support staff at present, would make sense for one higher level engineer to be tasked with it rather than someone different each time.
jonny72
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:14 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:17 pm

Well, I have been transferred to another Synology support representative. Based on his response below, this issue is being caused because my entire file system is corrupted due to unexpected shut downs (like power outage or disk being unplugged). So I have to wipeout my entire disk station and put everything back on; not just my time machine sparse bundle. What the heck?! I dunno where I am going to put 500 gb of data temporarily. This is the whole reason why I bought a disk station! [Please control your language]!

"I will be the point of contact for this ticket moving forward.

I reviewed your logs and see that there have been several unclean shut downs in the past. This will cause a wide range of unexpected behavior including filesystem corruption. Your sparsebundle file sits on top of our filesystem, so, if the underlying filesystem is corrupted, then of course the file containing your sparsebundle 'filesystem' could be corrupted. The fact that Time Machine failed to fsck it helps to indicate this as well.

I recommend to backup your data, verify the backup, remove the volume, create a new volume, and restore from your backups to the new volume. You may then create a new Time Machine backup with the new volume.

If you can show us that this happens with a new volume and with no unclean shut downs in the past, we will investigate it.

Unclean shutdowns of our system is a common issue, hence why you see frequent complaints, because most people think that it can be treated like a Windows PC where you can pull the power and it will most likely be OK. This is not the same for our products as it is the same as a Linux RAID server.

I am sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for.

Matthew Kruse
Synology America Corp | www.synology.com |
"
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby myCloud » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:50 am

I guess as an IT guy for decades, I gotta weigh in here. Without access to your DiskStation, there's nothing Synology can do but guess what your problem may be. You're asking them for help, but then not giving the engineers the access they need to help you (as well as others if it turns out to be a common problem). I have no sympathy for you.

Give them the admin/root access and change the password when they're done.

FWIW, I can't even imagine running one of these units without a UPS that triggers a graceful shutdown on power loss.
DS 1512+ w/3GB, 5 x 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001 8.2TB RAID 6, half files/half Time Machine.
Icy Dock MB559U3S-1SB enclosure w/4TB Hitachi UltraStar via USB 3 for files backup
UVERSE to AirPort Extreme + 2 AirPort Express w/speakers. TRENDnet TV-IP312WN camera
CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD Sine Wave UPS
DSM 4.1-2661 w/SSH + SFTP, VPN Server, Syslog Server, Media Server, Mail Server, Mail Station,
Audio Station, Surveillance Station, Photo Station, Web Station - DS Apps on iPad & iPod Touch.
User avatar
myCloud
Skilled
Skilled
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:12 pm

I guess I would like Synology to have a little more accountability when it comes to the product they are selling. So far they have told me YOUR wireless connection is a problem and YOU corrupted your file system...in other words "this is not Synologys problem"...this is unacceptable when so many people have this problem. If Synology advertised that you can only perform a backup with Time Machine via a wired connection and you need to purchase a UPS backup to ensure synology diskstation reliability, I would have never purchased this product.

See the links below for all the other forum posts that I have found which indicate a wide spread problem. This doesn't even include the apple support forum posts on this problem:

viewtopic.php?f=180&t=39715&hilit=time+machine

viewtopic.php?f=159&t=49738&p=189200&hilit=time+machine#p189200

viewtopic.php?f=116&t=49289&p=187546&hilit=time+machine+verification#p187546

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46693&p=178395&hilit=time+machine+verification#p178395

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=45509&p=174370&hilit=time+machine+verification#p174370

I offered to have Synology perform a remote login session like all other IT companies can/will do...but that was not good enough apparently. How about Synology being accountable and trying to trouble shoot it via their own testing. I would think this issue could be easily recreated since so many people have the problem.
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby myCloud » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:21 pm

The password for root is the same as the admin password. They need to log in as root, so you need to give them the admin password.
DS 1512+ w/3GB, 5 x 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001 8.2TB RAID 6, half files/half Time Machine.
Icy Dock MB559U3S-1SB enclosure w/4TB Hitachi UltraStar via USB 3 for files backup
UVERSE to AirPort Extreme + 2 AirPort Express w/speakers. TRENDnet TV-IP312WN camera
CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD Sine Wave UPS
DSM 4.1-2661 w/SSH + SFTP, VPN Server, Syslog Server, Media Server, Mail Server, Mail Station,
Audio Station, Surveillance Station, Photo Station, Web Station - DS Apps on iPad & iPod Touch.
User avatar
myCloud
Skilled
Skilled
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby dombi » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:54 pm

This is a good topic.

I also experience this issue from time to time. I wish there was some simple GUI tool to fix these corruptions.
dombi
I'm New!
I'm New!
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby pauldoo » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:00 pm

drm31078 wrote:Well, I have been transferred to another Synology support representative. Based on his response below, this issue is being caused because my entire file system is corrupted due to unexpected shut downs (like power outage or disk being unplugged). So I have to wipeout my entire disk station and put everything back on; not just my time machine sparse bundle. What the heck?! I dunno where I am going to put 500 gb of data temporarily. This is the whole reason why I bought a disk station! [Please control your language]!

"I will be the point of contact for this ticket moving forward.

I reviewed your logs and see that there have been several unclean shut downs in the past. This will cause a wide range of unexpected behavior including filesystem corruption. Your sparsebundle file sits on top of our filesystem, so, if the underlying filesystem is corrupted, then of course the file containing your sparsebundle 'filesystem' could be corrupted. The fact that Time Machine failed to fsck it helps to indicate this as well.

I recommend to backup your data, verify the backup, remove the volume, create a new volume, and restore from your backups to the new volume. You may then create a new Time Machine backup with the new volume.

If you can show us that this happens with a new volume and with no unclean shut downs in the past, we will investigate it.

Unclean shutdowns of our system is a common issue, hence why you see frequent complaints, because most people think that it can be treated like a Windows PC where you can pull the power and it will most likely be OK. This is not the same for our products as it is the same as a Linux RAID server.

I am sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for.

Matthew Kruse
Synology America Corp | http://www.synology.com |
"


This response from Synology is nonsense. Their products are advertised as being suitable for storing backups, and as such should be configured for durability by default. I know for a fact that their default configuration is not robust however, and is instead configured for performance (presumably to make the marketing benchmarks look good). I have raised this with Synology before, see my post here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=36844&start=0

Given the default configuration of their products I am not surprised to see filesystem corruption with unclean shutdowns. I am surprised to see them blaming customers for this when it is due to the default configuration they ship.


I too have been affected by the reliability of Time Machine since upgrading to OS X Lion and DSM 3.2 (viewtopic.php?f=64&t=45509), and have been very dis-satisfied with the support and attitude they have shown to myself and others.
pauldoo
I'm New!
I'm New!
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby jonny72 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:30 am

They didn't actually say the file system was corrupt though did they? Simply that it might be. I'd ask them to provide proof that the file system is corrupt, explain why other file system errors aren't being seen and why DSM isn't reporting file system corruption.

I can't help but think they saw the unclean shutdowns in the log and thought they'd blame it on that, same as with wifi.
jonny72
Trainee
Trainee
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:14 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:45 pm

I am not going to format my hard disk if they can't prove it's corrupt. I am going to do a fresh time machine backup but turn off disk station hibernate. I am also going to shorten the file name for the TM sparse bundle cuz my IT buddy said sometimes that can screw things up. We shall see.

I also saw this article about apple seeding an update to lion that affects time machine (no details on what they are fixing). What I found more interesting is reading the article comments where people are complaining about the same time machine problem we are discussing.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1358016
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:52 pm

I think my support from synology has ended...no more responses from them. I have since bought a UPS battery back up, turned off hibernate on the disk station, shortened the sparse bundle filename, and generated a new TM backup via wired connection. We shall see if this works...

Anyone else having any luck with Synology support?
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby gd11_be » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:52 am

Dear All,

For what's it worth. I am doing some more reading and I found a couple of interesting sites

First of all this is an interesting and well document setup on 'TimeMachine Backups'.
https://macsynology.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -synology/

Secondly this person seems to report that an additional patch is available from Apple. So I have installed that one.
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/03/05/ ... ore-issue/

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1505

As this problem is so intermittent, it is difficult to prove if this will fix it. I had another discussion with Synology tech support on the topic. And I am not making a lot of progress. So I will continue researching this on the net. Hope the above is useful!

Cheers !

Geert
iMac - 2.8 - i7 - 16GB - Lion
iTouch - 32 GB - iOS 5.0.01
MacBook Pro Early 2008 - 2.4
MacBook Air i5 128 GB SSD
MacBook Pro i5 Early 2011 - 2.3
iPad 16 GB & iPad2 16 GB - iOS 5.0.1
Apple TV1 - #Leia / Apple TV2 - #DarthVader
Onkyo TX-NR708 / Technics - SL 1200 MKII (Vinyl still rules)
Synology DS211 - DSM 4.1 - #R2D2 / Synology DS209J - DSM 4.1 - #SkyWalker
Xbox 360 - Black LE
Mission 774 (F&R) + 7 (C) / Mission Sub / B&W Zeppelin Air - #HanSolo
gd11_be
Enlightened
Enlightened
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:13 am

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby Jabes » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:23 pm

The DSM update 2219 has this item in the release notes:

* Enhanced the overall stability of AFP file protocol

One can only hope - downloading to install now, then I will start time machine off (again!)
Jabes
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:31 pm

Re: Per Synology, wireless Time Machine backup not supported

Postby drm31078 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Did a clean TM back up with wired connection on 4/17/12 (Tuesday), got the TM "verification" message last night. This is ridiculous. Just did another clean TM back up today.
drm31078
Beginner
Beginner
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Backup/Restore for computer clients

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests