Update Linux kernel in Synology distribution

[DS508_customer]

The central component of the operating system used in Synology devices, is the Linux kernel. Synology devices running v*.637 operate on Linux kernel v2.6.15, which was released on 03-Jan-2006. Currently, the latest Linux kernel is v2.6.26, which was released on 13-Jul-2008. During those 922 days, numerous (critical) bug fixes and feature enrichments have been developed and thoroughly tested, which improve security and/ or performance (i.e. reliability). To mention all improvements since v2.6.15 would practically be impossible. Even the number of improvements between the current version and 'only' the previous version (v2.6.25) is huge; a summary of those changes is listed here. Not all changes since Linux kernel v2.6.15 are equally relevant for Synology devices. Building and testing a new distribution (for each CPU architecture that Synology offers), requires financial resources. Such investments help to maintain and improve the reliability of the devices, which benefits brand image.

@Franklin:

• Which firmware-release-policy does Synology follow, regarding the Linux kernel
• When will the latest Linux kernel be included in the firmware

[Zouk !]

I think that kernel should be updated (if possible) when firmware is released ONLY if it does not affects in ANYWAY stability of Synology Product.

I prefer a very old stable kernel that a last new kernel that will crash my system or, worst, corrupt/crash my volume(s) because of unpredictable or untested consequences.
 

[Franklin]

With regards to updating Linux Kernels, we will only update Kernels if it meets the needs of the Synology system, and is at the discretion of our developers. That being said, we are already planning to update the Kernel of Synology systems starting sometime in September.

Please note that all development information is subject to change without notice.

[DS508_customer]

.. does not affects in ANYWAY stability ...

Bug fixes improve reliability. Just a random example: Since the latest release of the Linux kernel, the 'write barrier' option is ENabled (for at least certain types of mounts), which limits the risk of severe data loss when using 'write cache". Though, I agree that distributions should be tested, before releasing them.

[Zouk !]

.. does not affects in ANYWAY stability ...

Bug fixes improve reliability. Just a random example: Since the latest release of the Linux kernel, the 'write barrier' option is ENabled (for at least certain types of mounts), which limits the risk of severe data loss when using 'write cache". Though, I agree that distributions should be tested, before releasing them.

Sorry, I don't agree with you.

Sure, bug fixes may improve reliability in some ways, but new kernel is not a simple bug fixed version of previous one, there are changes too, keep in mind that new version can also introduce a lot of new bugs, incompatibilities, unpredictable effects (because not fully tested) and perhaps finally less reliability ! That's the deal !
I consider kernel in Synology system so critical and sensitive to introduce so easily new release of linux kernel only because it's "new". That's not enough.
You said yourself, linux changelog is too long to enumerate since version used within Synology products, so long that it will very long to test if any of these changes will not introduce worst things that will corrupt your volume or crash your system in special case !

Again, I prefer a old reliable version than a new fresh unstable version !
I don't know if you are a Windows user, but just look in Windows world ... look at XP then Vista.
Do you use Windows Vista since it is last OS version... ?

New version is not always meaning of improvements regarding of data reliability and overall system stability. And, I really think, focus should be aimed in this way in all case.

About your (so not random ) write barrier example and -related- write cache topic, since it not the first time you talk about it and you're really seem to be afraid and worried to activate it, you should really think about buy a ups. It may solve your problem for this and it will do much more about "reliability" and no more worries (no overvoltage, no sudden power lost). Write barrier disabled and write cache enabled is no more a problem (but you're right to be worried when not ups is plugged. I agree with you on it).
"Now" solution is so simple ! You say it in your signature : "The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity"
The solution you are choosing is not the simplest (trying to introduce a new version of kernel VS buy an UPS).
Anyway Frankin already said several times that it will be updated with no times precision.
Don't wait anymore if your data are important (I don't work for any UPS enterprise )

And what is 75€ (UPS's price) comparing of 800€ of the DS508 ? You're estimating price of your data at 75€ ?

Greetings,
Zouk !

[DS508_customer]

@Zouk!: I have to disagree that we disagree. Updating the kernel makes sense, only if the changes in the new kernel are relevant for the distribution. Distributions should be tested before releasing them, as changes may result in new bugs. It is practically impossible to test all possible configurations with all possible use cases. "If it is not broken, do not fix it." On the other hand; it would be extremely risky to stay with firmware 'v1.0' for ever, as numerous improvements have been released ever since. Not all of them are critical, of course. However, the ones are which fix: published security wholes, serious performance issue, stability/ reliability issues, etc. I am not even referring to any extended functionalities, which are vital for a company to keep or gain market share (-> continuous product support -> updates). NOT distributing critical bug fixes (during the last 922+ days since worldwide publication) likely results in legal (class-action) liability claims. It is like a car manufacturer which knows about its faulty gasoline tanks, but does not really do anything about it.

<off-topic>I brought up the barrier topic, as I thought it would appeal to those concerned with reliability (like you). An UPS prevents crashes from power failures only. Therefor, it is only a partial workaround for the risk of severe data loss. I am still discussing this topic in detail with an engineer from Synology, after which I will take specific precautions (focused on the root-cause). To those that are concerned about reliability, I recommend subscribing to the barrier topic, mentioned earlier. If you are concerned about security (as being part of reliability), you may find this (not so random) topic interesting.</off-topic>

[Zouk !]

Hello,

Well, I think all has been said.
We only have different opinion but same concern : data reliability & security

Note : I was already following these topics

Regards,
Zouk !

[DS508_customer]

... We only have ... same concern : data reliability & security ...

@Zouk !: Agree!

With regards to updating Linux Kernels, we will only update Kernels if it meets the needs of the Synology system, and is at the discretion of our developers. That being said, we are already planning to update the Kernel of Synology systems starting sometime in September.

Synology devices running v*.637 operate on BusyBox v1.1.0, which was released on 13-Jan-2006. Currently, the latest BusyBox is v1.11.1, which was released on 12-Jul-2008. During those 911 days, numerous (critical) bug fixes and feature enrichments have been released.
@Franklin: When will the latest Busybox release be included in the firmware

[Sarav]

Well here is my request that's half way inbetween the other 2 user's request.

Synology, please please realllly consider upgrading the kernel if you are confident that it didn't introduce any new bugs that affect Synology products. We have faith in your decision.

Or another option is to have Synology's own "branch" which back ports only the critical kernel bug fixes. And whenever a major feature that improves performance of Synology devices is put into the mainline kernel, then Synology can jump to that kernel and branch off of that for critical bug fixes.

Thanks,
Sarav

[DS508_customer]

Updated info regarding the start post of this topic, based on firmware DSM 2.0-0731/732:

Code: Select all

uname -a
Linux *** 2.6.24 #732 Fri Jan 16 19:00:16 CST 2009 ppc unknown


Linux 2.6.24 was released on 24-Jan-2008. Currently, the latest Linux kernel is v2.6.28, which was released on 24-Dec-2008. Hence, the difference/ delay is 335 days.

[DS508_customer]

As is being discussed here, Synology NAS-models with the same firmware version numbers have different Linux Kernels installed.

[bobjase]

If you are not already, please strongly consider releasing a firmware with the new kernel as soon as possible (2.6.29 will be released VERY soon).

The heart of any NAS is a network filesystem and this should be our #1 focus. Ext4 (available as of 2.6.28) and BTRFS (available in 2.6.29) are fundamentally better filesystems than Ext3 and provide significant performance improvements (often on the order of 20-30%) as well as better fault tolerance and many new features.

Delaying access to these filesystems in favor of nearly any alternative features (e.g. upgrading the surveillance station AJaX UI) would be losing sight of the forest for the trees.

[DS508_customer]

If you are not already, please strongly consider releasing a firmware with the new kernel as soon as possible (2.6.29 will be released VERY soon).

The heart of any NAS is a network filesystem and this should be our #1 focus. Ext4 (available as of 2.6.28) and BTRFS (available in 2.6.29) are fundamentally better filesystems than Ext3 and provide significant performance improvements (often on the order of 20-30%) as well as better fault tolerance and many new features.

Delaying access to these filesystems in favor of nearly any alternative features (e.g. upgrading the surveillance station AJaX UI) would be losing sight of the forest for the trees.

This is already being discussed in this topic.
@Synology: merge topics?

[Franklin]

==Mod Note==
Merging Topics

@all
A new file system is under development for release during H2 of 2009. Further information will be available during that time period.

[Zouk !]

==Mod Note==
Merging Topics

@all
A new file system is under development for release during H2 of 2009. Further information will be available during that time period.

Greetings Franklin,

Thanks for info, I have a question about this statement.
A conversion process will be introduced/handled with this new file system ?
or -maybe- you already know that all already existing volumes of our DiskStation will require a recreation/format for benefit of the new system file ?

Best Regards,
Zouk !