WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

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WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:53 pm

Today i bought 5x WD20EARS 2 TB disk for my synology 1010+ but on the forum im reading about issues with:

- TLER AND LLC but i have absolutely no clue what this means. My native language is not english and i hope that someone can explain me what the exact problem is with the disk and what the tool WDIDLE3.EXE fixes.

I hope someone can explain this. Than when the disk's arrive i know if i can just put them in my synology or that i first need to 'fix' the harddrives
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby ajunio3 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:17 pm

Nothing you can do about TLER and EARS. It's simple disable by default in firmware by WD and you can't change this anymore.
For this reason I didn't go with EARS and choosed EADS instead.

WDIDLE3 still works and so, at least you can solve the LCC problem either disabling or change the Idle time (as I did, to 300 sec).

Hope this helps

Antonio
Last edited by ajunio3 on Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby maxxfi » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:58 am

In short, the LLC problem is this: the WD 'Green drives' try to reduce the power consumption
by parking their heads after few seconds that there is nothing to read or write.
However, with Linux-based computers (like Synology NAS), disks receive requests even only
to re-read some data every few seconds. What happens in the WD greens is that if they are idle
you can hear a click of the head parking... and then immediately moving again. Every about 8 seconds.
If you repeat this 24h per day, you can imagine that is not healthy for the disk.

And here the WDIDLE3 tool comes to help, by delaying the head parking.

As it was said in the other post, there is nothing to do about with TLER in EARS disks.
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:31 pm

Finally the LLC problem is clear to me! Thank you very much!

But what i still dont understand how do i run the WDIDLE3.EXE tool? Do i put the harddrives in the Synology 1010+ and than adjust the head parking? Or do i connect them to my Imac by USB or something?

I read this topic: viewtopic.php?f=124&t=20907

with this information:
Code: Select all
1. Downloaded FDOEMCD.builder.zip from http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/.
2. Added wdidle3.exe to CDROOT folder. ( http://www.synology.com/support/faq_ima ... didle3.zip )
3. Executed MAKEISO.BAT to create new FDOEM.ISO CD image file.
4. Burned FDOEM.ISO to CD and viola - it will boot to DOS and allows wdidle3 to run.
5. Disabled wdidle3 timer on all discs (I'm actually using WD20EADS)


But still i do not understand. Could someone please clarify what to do to change the parking time...
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby Ipse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:12 pm

Make something in bootable suport. I maked CD. Put wdidle3 exe on it . Reboot computer and from Bios, make boot from CD.
In DOS operating sistem write this:

J:\>wdidle3.exe/D

where J: is your CD

If is everything allright sistem response:

" idle3Timer is enabled and set to 3720 seconds.


Sorry for my english. :)
DS1010+ /2x WD2002FYPS
DS109 / WD20EARS
other brand NAS/2x WD20EARS

Pe unde trec, incerc sa pun umarul si sa las ceva bun in urma mea.
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:07 pm

I dont really understand to be honest. I really need a step by step guide from the beginning, so i have my hard drive in my hand, what do i do?

- Do i plug it in the computer (not an option actually because i only have imacs and i don't know how to unscrew them).
- Can i put them in my nas and then adjust the LLC?
- Or do i need to do something else? Like from USB or something?

Then i need to make something in bootable support but where can i find bootable support, what do you mean? Do i just burn a CD with wdidle3 exe on it?
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby maxxfi » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:20 pm

If you have a Mac, go to WDC board and complain for getting support for Apple products.
Unfortunately the WDIDLE3.EXE is a DOS (or Windows, I can't remember) only executable,
so it won't work if you attach the disk to your Mac via an USB enclosure and it won't work
if you put it inside a Synology NAS or another Linux-based computer.

So, for you step 1 is:
- find a helpful friend with a Windows PC :)
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:35 pm

I do have windows on one of my mac's so that should not be a problem i guess...

What are the steps to take in this case?
Step 1: Attach the Harddisk by using USB to my Macbook Pro?
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby maxxfi » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:38 pm

Please search in the forum regarding whether is possible to use an USB enclosure,
I honestly don't remember what was the result.
There is a whole forum section dedicated to that issue ( viewforum.php?f=124 )
To avoid any issue I did temporarily plugged my EARS as an internal disk for a PC.
DS-411 (DSM 4.3-3810) w/ 2x WD10EFRX + 1x HD154UI
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:52 pm

I did search the forum and read almust every topic but still i do not understand. That is the reason why i created a new topic i really hope get an explanation in plain/simple english from step 1.

I dont know if i need to use USB to attach my HD or build it into my computer or plug a usb drive in to my hard drive really no clue.
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby ajunio3 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:21 am

dannyborneman wrote:I did search the forum and read almust every topic but still i do not understand. That is the reason why i created a new topic i really hope get an explanation in plain/simple english from step 1.

I dont know if i need to use USB to attach my HD or build it into my computer or plug a usb drive in to my hard drive really no clue.


I'll try to help you. First I'll appologize because english is not my mother language (I'm brazilian)

1 - Download a DOS bootable image. Go to http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm and choose one to burn a usb stick.
2 - Choose one program to burn the image into the usb Stick (there are lots out there, google it)
3 - Copy the WDIDLE3 program into the usb stick

Now, if you have a DS1010+ as I do, you don't need to take your HDD'd out to a normal PC. Once this NAS is , for instance, almost a normal PC, you can use I to do the complete procedure. It has a VGA port that you can connect a monitor, and using a USB keybord you can continue. So you have all the hardware you need!!

4 - connect the VGA port , USB keybord and USB stick into the DS1010+ and take all discs out, leave just one. I did dis because WDIDLE3 try to change the config of all discs connected at the same time. Not sounds good for me, so I did it one disc at time always repeating the hole procedure (don't trust in hot swap using DOS)
5 - during post, press DEL and get into BIOS. This step is needed because you have to change the SATA configuration. In order to WDIDLE3 to find your discs, the SATA ports must be configured as IDE compatible mode. Find this section and change it to IDE mode (normal is AHCI and there is also RAID as well). Save and exit.
6 - now during post press F11, them you'll get a prompt to choose where you want to boot from. Choose your DOS USB stick. If everything goes fine, you should see your DOS image booting. If not, you'll see the normal DSM firmware booting (it stops on "grub loading" os something and nothing changes, If this happens, you have to shutdown and try again (but should be some problem with the usb stick, or dos image. Try to boot another devices with it to be sure). If the NAS can't boot from your personal target It'll do from its standars one anyway.
7 - if in DOS mode, them simple type WDIDLE3 /S300 (to change to 300 seconds or even more if you want) or /D (to disable). That's your call, but WD oficially recomended 300 sec.
8 - shutdown the NAS, change the disc and repeat the procedure all over again with the other discs.
9 - after all is completed, go into BIOS again and restore the standar SATA config (choose AHCI)
10 - save, exit, and shutdown your NAS.
11 - connect all discs again, disconnect all USB and VGA connections and take your NAS back into normal operation

hope this helps. That's exaclty what I did with my 5 WD20EADS (but also the TLER trick, that doesn't work with EARS)
Synology DS1010+ 3GB RAM w/ 5x 2TB WD20EADS, TLER /ON, WDIDLE3 /S300, RAID 5 with DSM 3.0-1285 (beta)
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:48 pm

Thank you for your guide on how to change the LLC i think this will work, but i do have one question:

- Can i still do this after configged al harddisks in raid 5?

Is this a normal LLC: http://localhostr.com/files/36ce01/Sche ... .37.15.png
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby ajunio3 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:13 pm

dannyborneman wrote:Thank you for your guide on how to change the LLC i think this will work, but i do have one question:

- Can i still do this after configged al harddisks in raid 5?


Yes, no problem. Change the WDIDLE3 config doesn't change or affect the data on the drive.

Once you are booting into another system (DOS) the original NAS system doesn't get affected by taking the discs out and in again. I think you could even change the order of the discs but I preffer just pulling them out a little bit from the bay (keeping them on the trails, but disconnected)

But, of course, having a full backup is awalys smart don't you think? God knows what could happen. For me everything went well, changed the TLER settings (on, 7 sec) and the WDIDLE3 timer (for 300 sec) and nothing changed under the RAID 5 array. Actully I did a lot more with my DS1010+ using a Ubuntu image from the usb stick. You can mount the RAID 5 array created by DSM under a normal linux distro without problems (using mdadm linux command)
Synology DS1010+ 3GB RAM w/ 5x 2TB WD20EADS, TLER /ON, WDIDLE3 /S300, RAID 5 with DSM 3.0-1285 (beta)
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby dannyborneman » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:50 pm

How exactly did you change the TLER and what does de TLER exactly mean? I know now that the LLC is crucial for keeping your harddrive alive for a long time but i dont really understand the TLER issue..

by the way did you check my printscreen, are these settings normal or do i have a high LLC:
http://localhostr.com/files/36ce01/Sche ... .37.15.png
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Re: WD20EARS TLER AND LLC problem

Postby ajunio3 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:26 pm

dannyborneman wrote:How exactly did you change the TLER and what does de TLER exactly mean? I know now that the LLC is crucial for keeping your harddrive alive for a long time but i dont really understand the TLER issue..

by the way did you check my printscreen, are these settings normal or do i have a high LLC:
http://localhostr.com/files/36ce01/Sche ... .37.15.png


Read this post. Is a very well detailed explanation about TLER http://forums.storagereview.com/index.php/topic/28333-tler-cctl/

in short. TLER means "Time Limit Error Recovery" and is the name WD gave to it (Samsung calls CCTL i think)

If TLER is not enable (and its IMPOSIBLE to enable it on the new EARS drives) the controller can simply drop out the disc from the array, hence the volume becomes degraded (if one disc fails) or even crashed (if two or more fails at the same time). Of course, I'm considering RAID 5 ok?

So you see, without TLER enabled, with 5 discs running, you are sitting in a "Time Bomb" im my opinion, once just a single reading problem with one of the discs, if it takes more than 8 sec (and is very normal the ECC take until 2 min trying to recover from the reading error) the disc is considered "bad" by the RAID controller and will be dropped out from the array. There are lots of complains about this behavior of WD green drives in NAS'es (or even from other manufactures) from drives getting dropped every day withou any S.M.A.R.T. reasons. With TLER enabled after 7 sec. the drive "gives up" trying to recover the data and return responding to the RAID controller, that sill try to read the data from another point fo the array, parity, and so on.

Hope is more clear now.

Antonio
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