Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

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Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby patterr » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:12 pm

About to pull the trigger on a Synology Diskstation and wanted to make sure I am heading down the right path. I'm considering either the DS413j, DS412, or the RS812 and my primary uses are listed below. It looks like I can get the DS412+ or the RS812 for around the same price. There doesn't appear to be much difference besides the form factor and the DS412+ having a USB 3.0 port.

I've been reading that the DS413j may be a little underpowered for transcoding... though I'm not too keen on what that means. What does Plex do when you are streaming movies from your NAS to an Apple TV?

1. Streaming videos from iTunes library (2TB) to 6 Apple TVs in the house (likely 2 simultaneously at the max)
2. Streaming Blu Ray rips from ??? to ??? <-- this one I'm not sure about yet as I haven't looked into it. Can Blu Ray movies that you own be ripped to a not-too-lossy file and then streamed to an Apple TV?
3. Streaming audio from iTunes to Distributed Home Audio System (20GB) (I'm not worried about this)
4. Backup of local devices on the network (I'm not worried about this)
5. Shared files between machines (I'm not worried about this)

Thanks in advance,

Rob
Last edited by patterr on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:41 am

Hi

Streaming and transcoding is two different things. Streaming can be done by all DS, without any problem, (perhaps not for 6 devices at one time) but transcoding can only be done towards 1 device at a time (plex)

If you have a Apple TV and want to get it working the way you describe, you need to have Apple tv version 2,(not v. 3 no jailbreak yet) and then jailbreak it and install something new like XBMC.

The Apple TV per standard don't support the DS as you describe your needs.

If you have Plex installed, then the only device that can do the job, (from the list you have in your post) is the DS 412+, the only DS with power enough to do transcoding on the fly. (only in HD)

There are MAC software that allows the scenario you want, there are some limitations in the way Apple allow users to share the media contest. (DRM= digital media rights)
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby patterr » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi Michael -

Thanks for your reply. I realized that the RS812 that I was looking at wasn't the RS812+ so that one is off the table. I am pretty sure the 412+ is what I'll end up with.

I'm already able to stream movies from my iTunes library on my PC with ease (since that's what it was designed for) so what will I not be able to do with the DS412+ with respect to streaming?

Would Transcoding only be required when playing ripped Blu-Rays? Is that what would require the jailbroken AppleTV (and Plex)?

Appreciate your time,

Rob
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:27 pm

patterr wrote:Hi Michael -

Thanks for your reply. I realized that the RS812 that I was looking at wasn't the RS812+ so that one is off the table. I am pretty sure the 412+ is what I'll end up with.

I'm already able to stream movies from my iTunes library on my PC with ease (since that's what it was designed for) so what will I not be able to do with the DS412+ with respect to streaming?

Apple dos not allow sharing of movies, unless it's from Itunes or other MAC program, because of DRM (Digital Rights Management) so the Itunes server on the DS can only share the music.

Would Transcoding only be required when playing ripped Blu-Rays? Is that what would require the jailbroken AppleTV (and Plex)?

Appreciate your time,

Rob


If you use Plex then the transcoding is done by the DS processor, if you stream the transcoding is done by the device that you are streaming to.

But you can only use Plex if you Jailbreak your Apple TV, see more here
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6515

So Apple TV can not as standard use Plex, but needs a Itunes server setup from a MAC or PC.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby patterr » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:24 pm

Oh wow! That's a big "gotcha!" Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm surprised that this isn't more clearly spelled out... I would have been quite shocked.

Jailbreaking my AppleTV Gen 2 won't be an issue and installing Plex looks straightforward enough. From reading other posts, it looks like streaming 2-3 1080P streams is doable with a gigabit switch so I think this is not a problem, right?

What are people doing to save blu-ray discs on their Synology drives for playback via streaming Plex? What file format is most commonly used that isn't lossy? File sizes are insane, I'm sure.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Hi

I get a new harddisk :-), I use MKV, don't have the time for converting I need the subs.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby patterr » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:24 pm

Thanks for the info. Is MKV truly a one step process to store the Blu-Ray on your NAS in a format the PLEX can easily play? How large are the files per movie? 4GB or do you have to rip the entire disc including the extras?

http://makemkv.com/
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:42 pm

Hi

MKV do make big files, (uncompressed so same size as on disk) but I delete all the extra material and only keep the movie file.

When I make a MKV from a DVD it takes 15-20 min, and if I convert to other compressed file format and convert with subs it takes 2-3 hours.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby bpchristensen » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 pm

I currently run a DS411 and store a variety of SD and HD content ripped from disks. I have a single ATV2 connected to my home theater system. I do not use ANY of the services ("packages") of the DiskStation except for Audio Station and Video Station. I have stopped thumbnail creation and file indexing in order to streamline performance. On the ATV is running Firecore (for jailbreaking) which then let me install XBMC. To watch movies, I have to launch XBMC from the ATV main menu, wait for it to load and update any new content, then I navigate to movies, TV shows, or whatever. Streaming content is generally very fast and quite good (though never as good as watching the original DVDs on a Blu-Ray player)

The weakest part of the link is the ATV itself - it lacks horsepower and memory capacity. The ATV2 once jailbroken with Firecore seems to have memory leaks or some issue that causes it to run out of memory and bog down, causing movies to stutter and sometimes crash immediately after loading.

This was not an issue for me until I had ripped a few dozen DVD and filled up the library with thumbnail images and fan art. Scrolling through movies is now quite slow and about once a week I have to "relaunch" the ATV in order for it to stream HD movies (I have a 720p TV, so I generally only stream 720p content but with full DTS or Dolby sound, all in either MP4 or MKV formats). I have to be careful with the settings I use to rip the movies. If I go too high on the resolution/frame rate, then the movie performance will suffer but generally this is only true with full 1080p content.

So, in summary, I believe the weak link is the client (in this case the ATV) that is doing the media rendering. I'm actually in a search for something more robust and flexible than the ATV. I'm a huge Apple fan, but hacking the ATV doesn't seem like the ideal answer for this scenario and I'm hoping someone out there makes a silent (no fan, no hard drive, no discernible boot time) device that is more robust.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby jasondunn » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:58 am

I wanted to jump in here and ask a question since this topic is what I'm curious about: I have a DS1512+ and am really running into problems streaming Blu-ray MKV files from it using Plex and a Roku 2 XS.

Regular DVDs seem to be OK, but Blu-ray MKVs play for only a few seconds, then they buffer, play for a few seconds, then buffer. Pretty frustrating. I've been thinking it was the DS1512+ and a wall I was hitting on transcoding the 1080p content, but maybe it's a client issue? Should the Roku 2 XS be able to play the files?

Everything is connected via CAT6 and Gigabit switches, so I don't think it's a bandwidth issue.

Thanks for any insight or suggestions!
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:38 am

Hi

My best guess is that it is the DS, the processor is the same as in the DS 412+, and it can transcode HD, but not full HD, to hard for the processor.

I have stopped using Plex for the same reason, and are now only streaming to media player.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby ctippen » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:31 pm

I have been using the DS409 for several years and it has worked great for me. I use "VLC" http://www.vidieolan.org on the PC for movies. This program will work for Mac, Linux and PC. Also use another program called "AnyDVDHD" http://www.slysoft.com/en/. The DS409 has worked without any flaws for the whole family. When I started running out of room (was 4 1Tb drives, setup with SHR) it was upgraded with 4 2Tb drives. The upgrade was so easy and flawless. Had to do one drive at a time but while it was initializing the new hard drive, we could still use the Synology box to read and write files! Copying files to and from the DS409 is around 20-30 MB/second on a 1gig network connection. I have tested the 409 by playing 7 videos at once using VLC and all of the videos were ISO's It worked like a champ. We also store all of our photos, data files and PC backups to the DS409.

Just bought the DS412+ from (best price I found) http://www.superbiiz.com/ with free shipping.
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:40 pm

Hi

Yes most streaming only needs 1-4 mb to run smooth.

Check this about streaming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_media
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby jasondunn » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:38 am

mike42dk wrote:My best guess is that it is the DS, the processor is the same as in the DS 412+, and it can transcode HD, but not full HD, to hard for the processor.


I'm not so sure. When I was streaming Blu-ray MKVs I watched the CPU usage and it never went above 75%, even when the Roku started buffering and pausing. If it was a hard CPU limit, I'd expect to see the CPU pegged at 100%.

mike42dk wrote:I have stopped using Plex for the same reason, and are now only streaming to media player.


So you're streaming the "raw" 1080p MKVs? What player are you using to play them back?
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Re: Streaming Household - will this Diskstation be enough?

Postby mike42dk » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:50 am

Hi

Even though that you are on a Gigabit network, are you sure that all devices run gigabit?

I use a WD TV Live

http://store.westerndigital.com/store/w ... D.57155000
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